Neurological problem, seizures - help please

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by hodie on 11 April 2008 - 02:04

Dear Oso,

This is very sad news, but based on what you wrote last night, not unexpected. I would question the diagnosis of distemper unless the vaccines were ineffective or he was a rare dog who did not gain immunity from vaccination. He may well have had some other problem that only a veterinary pathologist could have discovered.

For what it is worth, you might find reading the following link helpful. If your dog did not have a lot of the signs they relate, it might be worth while to consider another possible diagnosis. As you will read, distemper virus cannot survive in the environment for any thing more than a few minutes. So if the other dogs were not in direct contact with him during this illness, or if he indeed did not have the virus, it might not matter if you revaccinate or not. As well, note that there is a syndrome of old dogs getting a "neurodistemper", meaning he might have been infected as a young dog or pup and the infection has just laid dormant all this time. But not knowing more, I could not begin to speculate.

In any case, again, I am sorry for your loss and i hope no other animals become ill.

Best wishes.

by Darcy on 11 April 2008 - 02:04

Hodie,

Thanks for pointing out there MAY be an alternative cause for symtoms/problems with Oso's dog. I would hate to see her revaccinate all her dogs and then have problems from overvaaccination....

I have titered my dgos for over three years and have never needed to vaccinate for distemper in that time....

Darcy

by Rezkat5 on 11 April 2008 - 02:04

How was the diagnosis of Distemper made?

by hodie on 11 April 2008 - 03:04

Let me be clear that I am not one who believes in the "over-vaccination" stuff spread by a few over the internet. Nor do I believe that the problems which rarely surface when humans or animals are vaccinated are responsible for the downfall of the animals and their immune systems and every other ill that could possibly be conceived.

The reason to consider not to re-vaccinate is included in the post above. The virus dies very quickly in the environment. The other dogs in question may or may not have had exposure to whatever was going on with this poor dog. Oso did not give enough information for anyone here to make a guess as to what happened and unfortunately, lives in South America and may not have access to pathologists etc. If this were my situation, in this country, I would see to it that there was a necropsy done to hopefully come up with a definitive diagnosis. But that may not be possible in this situation.

Rezkats' question is a good one, and from the post I glean that it was made on signs exhibited by the dog before this final seizuring activity began last night. Oso mentions the dog having been ill and on RX medications, so there was some sort of physical history taken and that is probably all that led to the diagnosis.

Oso will correct me if this is not the case.

Again, I am sorry for the loss of the dog, especially in this way.

by oso on 11 April 2008 - 20:04

Thanks for the comments, we have vaccinated the other dogs, just in case as they had been in contact with him. Hodie, you did not post the link you mentioned? I would be interested to read it. We did not have any pathological tests done but the vet was pretty sure of the diagnosis due to the charcteristic signs of the convulsions and the time period since the respiratory problems first started, however, I would be interested to read the article, to be honest I just had not considered this possibility before, also it had not occured to the vet either. I will briefly relate his previous issues, in case they have any bearing. He was a healthy and very fit dog until around 3 .5 years. then he dveloped a problem that seemed neurological and the vet at first thought it was cauda equina, but it was not. I did post abut this at the time, don¿t know if the posts still exist. He lost all strength in his rear quarters and could not stand for any length of time (but was not paralysed and did not drag his toes, his tail was fine) This did not respond to steroid injections, which in fact made him more sick, at times he just did not get up and we thought he would not make it. Eventually following blood tests a bacterial infecction was discovered which the vet thought was affecting the spinal region and he was put on antibiotics and non-steroid anti- inflammatories, and recovered. He got back virtually to normal though never had quite the same excercise tolerance after that, although he was always eager to work and play. Last year he had a fatty cyst on his back which suddenly grew big, he would scratch it with his back leg and it would bleed and got quite messy, so we had it removed and he was on antibiotics again. Then during last year his toe nails seemed to go into growth overdrive and instead of being black as always, the front ones turned pale. After the last time we had the nails cut, in december, he developed an infection in one, antibiotics again. He did not stop limping on that foot, turned out there was a growth on the bone of the toe and so the nail and part of the bone was removed - antibiotics again. The the next thing was about 3-4 weeks ago when he started coughing, he also showed a symptom that I thought was neurological at the time - he would sometimes stand with his head down and twisted to one side. First treatment was antibiotics injections for 5 days and steroid injections fo 3. He improved immediately at first but on the 4th day went down hill again and was worse than before. Then we did the X-ray that revealed fluid on one lung and the vet said either an infection or a fluid-filled mass (no chance of doing lung biopsy as we don¿t have the required equipment). So, stronger antibiotics. After a few days just lying still, he would eat a little and take rehydration fluid if put under his nose but would not move, I said goodbye a few times... then he suddenly got better after the diprospan injections and seemed to have recovered, he was walking, even runnng, wanting to play, enjoying his food, following me around, although both my husband and I felt he was not really OK. He lacked his usual spark and had little energy, this stage lasted about 7-10 days, I think. Then, the night before yesterday the convulsions started and you know the rest..in case it is of interest you can see his pedigree here www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/476053.html. I don¿t know of the vaccine quality, but have only heard of one case of a puppy getting distemper after the first 2 vaccinations, this was not mine so I do not have the details, I have never personally seen a dog with distemper before.

by hodie on 11 April 2008 - 20:04

Oso,

Here is the link I mentioned and there are others you might want to search for on neurodistemper.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_distemper.html

The signs your dog exhibited do not fall into the classic presentation, that is for sure. If you never saw the dog in an active state of infection, with the horrible goop coming out of the nose etc., it is just difficult to say what was going on here. It may be that he had a brain tumor, or some other encephalopathy. There are plenty of diseases that could have caused the neurological signs you observed, especially the seizures. But the seizures might too have been caused by something else, including poor kidney function.

It will be a mystery perhaps as you may not have the ability to ever do anything definitive to find out. It is always very sad to loose a dog one loves. I will keep you in my thoughts and hope that all the other dogs do just fine.

best wishes,

by oso on 11 April 2008 - 20:04

Thank you Hodie, I did mention to the vet about the goo stuff I thought was typical of distemper, he said this was caused by secondary bacterial infections and we hid this symptom with all the antibiotics. He sees a lot of distemper in unvaccinated dogs and said the symptoms at the end were classic. But I do agree there is a possibility it was something else. All the other dogs are fine so far, fingers crossed...I will do some reading, and once again thanks for your concern and sympathy. Whatever it was I am pretty sure we could not have done anything to help. He was the best temperment dog you could think of, always part of the family and we are all extremely sad.

by beetree on 11 April 2008 - 20:04

Oso,

I am so sorry for your loss. I looked up his picture on the pedigree and he was a beautiful dog. There are no words to ease the pain of your loss, I know— yet, I have felt that helplessness before and it brings tears to my eyes thinking what your family must be going through. I send you condolences during your time of sadness.

~beetree

by oso on 11 April 2008 - 21:04

Thank you beetree, yes, he was a beautiful and very special dog, loved by all who knew him... just looked up the info- some things match, others don`t, he did not have digestive problms or lack of appetite, did not have nose or pad callous, but the apparent recovery followed by neurological stage 1-3 weeks later, that fits. We will never know.

by Mystere on 11 April 2008 - 21:04

I am very sorry for your loss. I know it must be heart-breaking.

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