What would you do? - Page 2

sue ann, as a breeder i sell my pups with contracts but i am a great believer in doing the right thing.

if i was unlucky enough to produce a pup like this one i would do evrything possible to help the owner within reason.

even if that ment not sticking to the contract. sometimes humanity comes into play. 

dogs to me dont mean $$$.

i am sorry if i sounded harsh re having the pup put to sleep. if you can give her some good years go for it!!!

all the best.

tracie

ps. have you tried hydrotherapy? it works wonders without putting strain on the joints

<i am a great believer in doing the right thing.>

Isn't doing the right thing, honoring the contract as written?  If this is what both parties agreed would be "The right thing," then its perfectly reasonable  to honor what was agreed initially.  Do we write contracts and guarantees and then decide, ooops, nope I should be giving back money instead.  Why not write the contracts and guarantees to cover exactly what we are willing to do and be done from the start.  Writing a guarantee then honoring that guarantee does not equal a breeder just out for money. 

I bought a dog from a breeder, dog had bad hips.  Breeder replaced the dog with a dog also with bad hips.  My loss.  I did not complain that this was not the right thing...it was what we agreed on, and yes it was wrong for me, but where does a breeder's responsibility end?  We cannot sell a dog and keep replacing it, right?  Our responsibility to the dog NEVER ends, but responsibility to the buyer does. 

When Mason bought his dog he agreed he could have a replacement if his dog had bad hips.  He gets one more try.  It's what they agreed on.  His question, "What would you do?"  I'd give the breeder a chance to honor the contract, and I'd bite my tongue, not complaining or bashing the kennel (not saying that is what is happening), waiting a resonable time for that breeder to have a chance to honor the contract.  In being patient and understanding, I as the owner, am also honoring my end of the contract.  Asking for anything other than what I agreed was fair FROM THE ONSET is unreasonable.

Help me understand if I'm missing something?  To me it's black and white.

Thank you Tigermouse...that is how we feel.  We are not trying to be difficult - it's a terrible situation - for all involved.

Yes, we have been told to read the contract, and have done so time and time again, however, in this situation and because it is a severe abnormality in a very young dog.  We will have much work on our hands with this dog. Adding another puppy to the mix is just going to add to our workload not lessen it.

AND..Before I get pounced on for that statement:

Yes, no one is forcing us to take the new pup - but in all reality is it a fair deal under these circumstances?   It's either take the pup or nothing... in my opinion that is just not fair. There was a contract and we bought the dog in good faith thinking that we had ellminated as many obstacles as possible by buying a 'pedigree dog' from Champion parents.   As I'm told it's a crap shoot - mother nature - etc...

So..then speaking from a pet buyer's perspective - in the future - do we forgo Breeders all together ?   

For us in this instance, paying the big bucks and doing what we were told was the 'right thing' to do when looking for a quality dog..i.e. going through a 'reputable breeder' has served us no purpose. 

We may have done better by going to Joe Puppy down the street.  

It is my opinion that this instance is leaving a stain on the 'upstanding  breeders'. 

Hmmm...and what would be a reasonable amount of time? 

An replay back to sent emails to you would be reasonable.  Stating your reasons for delaying would be reasonable. 

As for the bashing ?  No one has been bashed.

I honestly don't know what I would do in your situation.  You did your homework and know that things like this don't always happen.  I would consider taking the replacement puppy, if anything maybe it'll help keep your current boy active, which can be important for a dog with bad hips.  Obviously no excessive running or jumping, but solid excercise helps to build those muscles.  I've gotten three dogs from reputable breeders and all three have good hips.  And none of those dogs had guarantees on their hips.  The breeders were also up front with me, saying that yes sometimes in these lines bad hips may pop up now and again.  The best that we can do is our homework and get the dogs from breeders who have put the effort into getting those hip and elbow ratings, etc. etc.  among other health checks. 

Sue-Ann,

I agree with you.   The contract(s) are written to protect both parties. Unfortunately ..genetics sometimes throw us all "curve balls"....and we look towards our contract(s) as our "warranties".

I feel if the breeder fulfills her/his part of the contract, that is all that can be expected of them.  To expect more or to (change) the terms agreed upon.....should be an agreement between both parties....and shouldn't even be subject to debate. IMO

Don't sign what you do not intend to abide by.......good or bad.  I don't believe it's a question of ethics, morals, or sensitivity........it's the original  "agreement of terms" between buyer & seller.

Again, ...it's just my opinion...nothing more.

Robin

does your breeder have a time limit on the guarantee?  I don't - perhaps your breeder would give you a replacement puppy next year or in a couple years, when you may be more ready for one.  May be something to ask the breeder, anyway.

molly

<So..then speaking from a pet buyer's perspective - in the future - do we forgo Breeders all together ?   >

If it's important to you to increase your odds with regard to health issues, then stick with the reputable breeders.  Good breeders should be willing to tell you what their kennel's average for producing bad hips is as compared to the breed average.  If they care, they will at times move outside their contract & guarantees as necessary (specifically if a situation arises that one could never predict, HD we know is present in the breed).

In putting together a hip guarantee, the breeder is telling you straight up there is a chance this dog could develop displasia.  "We've done what we can, but in case our safeguards fail, here is what we agree to do for you..."

What I see time and again are breeders who want to promise their puppy buyers the world.  "I stand behind my dogs no matter what."  What I see in practice from these types of breeders is them NEVER honoring a guarantee to anyone.  When the situation arises they hide behind their false promises and within a few years they are out of business....not because they've developed a poor reputation but because they lacked the passion to begin with.  Anyone can say they give guarantees...what they do is what really matters.

Mason, your breeder you got your dog from was someone established that you felt like you could trust was still going to be breeding when it came time for the dog to be old enough to have hips done, correct?  It was also someone you felt would treat you accordingly as agreed on in the contract.  You did you homework knowing you wanted to protect yourself from the potential of hip displasia.  Your homework DID pay off.  In the respect that you threw the dice and lost on the displasia portion is not cool.  You did win on the research to go with a breeder who would stand behind the dog.  Is a tough scenario, but you entered the contract knowing it was possible.

I guess if I'm really researching breeders and wanting to know what their references have to say, I'll ask to talk with someone who had a real problem (ie HD) and is satisfied the breeder did what was promised.  I'd like to see breeders proving they stand behind their dogs, good and bad. 

<An replay back to sent emails to you would be reasonable.  Stating your reasons for delaying would be reasonable. >
 

I think you're being a little impatient.  Not accepting the idea she's getting ready for a show is unreasonable.  She owes you a pup.  Be fair about allowing opportunity.  Breeders don't keep 100 pups in 5 different colors waiting on a back shelf of a warehouse.  These are precious little beings that noone should rush to give or get.

<As for the bashing ?  No one has been bashed.> ---Mason

<  I'd give the breeder a chance to honor the contract, and I'd bite my tongue, not complaining or bashing the kennel (not saying that is what is happening), >  Sue-Ann

After I posted that I wasn't sure if bashing was happening here, I've changed my mind.  I went and read your previous posts to discover, that yes, you kind of are bashing.  You've mentioned it's a she, and the area she's from as well as the fact she's getting ready for a show, you've also mentioned a parent's name.  A little detective work and we know who you are dealing with.  I think it's unfair that you agreed that yes, the dog could develop a problem (accepting and discussing a guarantee) and yes you were happy with what the breeder promised (you bought the pup with those terms clear at the beginning). 

This is not bashing. Perhaps you are being too sensitive. It sounds like Mason is being pretty patient, to me, anyways. He/She has already said they want what is right for everyone involved.

I would return the dog and patiently wait for my replacement.

What were your terms on shipping costs with the returns involved?  Is it all on you or are you splitting the 2 flights?

You just happened to be the unlucky one.  Even the most reputable breeders out there have odds that they need to deal with.    If they didn't, there would be no need for a contract.