Prey And Defense - Page 2

I have one of those slow Belgian boys. He just starting to see things in defensive manner at 18 months. The dog will tell you when he is ready if you just listen. I don't think we really pushed my boy. As I see it, he dropped off some in prey(dog was bored) and  the TD stepped up the defense. The more the decoy brings it, the more my dog enjoys his bite. Training has become allot more fun for both the dog and I. We tried to keep him in prey as long as possible as a pup. The breeder said the defense will come around 14-20 months and it did. Try asking your breeder about his lines and what to expect. If anyone should know, he should.

I was just having a discussion offline and few of the points came up. I don;t want to rip apart the schutzhund "industry" but here were some thought provoking points from my group. This may take the discussion a little different direction but not off topic totally

When the defense stimulus is too strong from a helper , the dog will bite but grip may not be full for most dogs . There have been dogs with a full calm grip that ran off the field ,when theatened with intimadating defense stimuli , where as,  there were others, who who hung with one tooth but still growled and fought and never ran away . This was documented . Most sport breeders rather would like to avoid such discussions as truth is not so commercial and sometimes difficult to accept  if they have a commercial agenda .

regards

I hardly think this discusion will rip apart the industry. Running of dogs can happen in any sport or venue. Not all dogs are created equally and yes hanging on by a tooth is what you look for and don't wanna see in bitework. Check out the dog in many situations not just the same field, same comfortable helper every time. You tube is a good place to view allot of dogs in allot of different training situations.  When you see a dog backing off the bite you have to look, is it the dog who is weak or is the traning the problem, could also be geneticly that dog never bites full? The biggest question in my mind when I see a video of a dog that is not into the fight or just hanging in is, who put this up? Is the trainer or handler too inexperienced to see the weakness in the dog or his training, flaunting this as good stuff?  I am reminded of the thread about the "Biggest GSD Kennel." 8 times out of 10 it is probably a human error and not the dogs issues. Trainers shouldn't put too much on a dog. A good trainer or even decoy can see the dogs comfort level has being incroached on and step it back down. My feelings are that for sport not much pressure is really needed and allot of  dogs can get past any hang ups with good training.

When you step into Military, LEO and other real world venues, then yeah the dogs do have to be for real. Training to cover up weakness isn't going to cut it for the guy on the other end of that leash. A mistake in training might not be as forgivable, taking a dog past his comfort zone to his breaking point should end that dogs career then and there. He's not going to come back as strong or stronger than he was before he was broken/shown he can lose. I have always been told the dog should be set up to win at everything, to feel like he is on top of the world and he will have no fear of losing. The dog should always win. Would you go to war with a dog who has been run at training?

Just remember...no dog is 100% each will have his own issue or issues to move through. Hopefully less issues and he moves through them quickly. A dog that can't overcome things can't move forward.