GROUP JUDGE CRITIQUE-ZAMP VOM THERMODOS-CRUFTS - Page 2

Marge, Whilst I totally agree with your sentiments. there are two points I would like to raise.

One, If the Group Judge thought so highly of the Dog then WHY wasn't he 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th in the Group???? that at least  would have got her of the hook!!! surely Lisa (Bless her) didn't make that much of a bad job of it.

Secondly, wasn't the handler you were referring to already committed.

Hey People we all need to remember one thing as i think it was Videx pointed out, the handler was a 14yr old child. Think about what you are saying, for a child of that age in the ring she was exhibiting at Crufts i think she did a marvellous job. Sweetheart if you read this well done for having the guts to even enter the ring. We are all entitled to make mistakes and after all there is always next year, and the opportunity in the future to have learnt from the experience.

Exactly Videx---Zamp has nothing to prove, and I dont think anyone is actually blaming his young handler(except the judge). It just brings us back to the same old thing, that sometimes it is more important to Judges, whats holding the lead instead of whats on the lead. Espescially here in the UK. The judges comments actually confirm this in my mind, and thats a pity. A superb dog should win or at least be placed even if a monkey was handling!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway I hope that this is just the beginning of some truly wonderfull dogs coming to Crufts.

BRADY BEE:

Unfortunately its more likely to put the exceptional dogs off coming, with judging like that.What should happen now( but won't) is that if she is allowed to judge gsd's again people should not enter !!!

 I made comment on the young girl not handling the dog to his advantage.  but i was slapped down with all the great breeders.

needless to say the post was removed as it upset people.

Yet it also seems that  "BILL OWEN"  is also not a trustworthy person to comment on the handling of Zamp.  It seems his post has now also been removed. But why,  it was clearly seen that the young girl handling Zamp was out of her depth.

I have read the post's about not entering dogs under the group judge if she comes up for GSds again, what a lot of hogwash.  This is a Top judge that has placed a lot of CCs on good shepherds.  Zamp is a Top dog, noone is saying different, but he should have been handled by someone that was used to the rings over here.

Yes put him in a football field and the young girl could possibably do a better job.

Why is it when someone post's a different view to those in the main that it is removed,  this post is not breaking any rules, so why remove it.

I'm very sure if Cox or Connoly had known that Zamp was coming they would have kept their calander's clear on a handling front.

Hi Pratl /Paddl

The reason why no one listens to you & wants your posts removed is because you criticise everyone & you haven,t the courage of your convictions or you would put a name to your posts.Tell us what dogs you have bred ? how long you have been in this breed ? What dogs you have or have handled ? Then we might take you seriously ! We,ve been waiting for a long time for ansewers but like the cowardly little mouth piece you are I bet we get nothing but more drival from you.

Alley

Cudos to the young handler, and im sure all the wannabe "pro" handlers would be queueing round the block to handle a dog which vaguely resembled Zamp. The young girl obviously enjoyed her day greatly, the dog adores her, she adores the dog, and neither has anything to prove.  Zamp is the complete package, and to those of you who have the foresight to use him at stud, i applaud and envy you. After a lot of lean years, quality is finaly creeping back into the rings in this country, and dogs are being given top honours on merit, not for the sake of back scratching. Go Zamp, and Lisa, and thank you.

I've read above here 'not handling him to his best advantage', and the like.

Im gobsmacked.

Zamp was handledd to the title of VA1 Sieger by a young woman, a family member (Lisa's older sister?) - the dog is such a superb specimen that ANY judge should be able to see it!

Lisa was perhaps not familiar with the best in show ring presentation protocol but it is NO excuse for what the judge has written about the handling of the dog.

And to the utter clowns who have been on this database asking why didnt she try more etc - Who is likely to be more commited to this dog than someone who truly loves him and FULLY understands his worth.  The family committed themselves to showing him in what are in fact poor show conditions for this breedd, on the world stage, knowing that the UK, like any other country would be watching with the attention the dog deserved.

The group judge should perhaps have considered her comments more carefully - rather than undermining her own decisions.

And as for those who suggest a UK handler should have been given the dog.... I hope I never handle for you guys - to put my heart and soul into a dog, take it to bOB at Crufts, to have me replaced at group level - particularly with a dog who is easily good enough to win it.

Shame on you who do not consider that Lisa and her family will see these posts!  Shame on you who think Zamp will be judged or remembered on not winning the group at Crufts when he is already SIEGER Zamp Thermodos.

i wouldd suggest the judge of the group will be remembered for not doing him justice instead.

I am with Mr Videx on this one.  An awsome dog with nothing whatsoever to prove - to any of us.

And congratulations Lisa, I hope the dog is never handled by anyone other than you or your sister.

Jozolli,  and long may the green eyed idols live to regret not seeing Zamp for what he is.

Crufts was full of cheap champions, in all breeds, who could never gain their titles in a ring where brains and working ability are part of the title criteria.  Zamp and his handler were there on merit alone, he has brains, beauty, and a temperament second to none, and you can bet your bottom dollar if he stopped winning tommorrow, he would still be the best loved dog in the world in Lisas eyes, and not consigned to a life in kennels, or sold on.  Dogs like him only come along once in a lifetime, and he should be appreciated for what he is, as near to perfection as it is possible to get.

He will probably be the last Seiger any of us will see at Crufts thanks to the negative comments.

A superb dog should win or at least be placed even if a monkey was handling.

So if a monkey was handling a dog and the said monkey just walked in to the ring and didn't present the dog in stance correctly, then held back the dog on the gait, it should still win because of who the dog is?

Above is directed at the comment from Brady Bee and not about Zamp.

The situation in the UK i believe is on performance and presentation on the day, not like in Germany and what the dog has done in the last year. Personally i think the young girl could have presented the dog better (only from what was shown on tv) but she is only 14 and seemed very laid back in the circumstances (i on the other hand would have been cacking my pants) and maybe we need to actually look at how relaxed she and the dog were too after a long tiring day. I know 99% of the handlers in the UK wish they were that 14 year old girl.

This is in general about any dog.

A good handler can make a decent dog look great but if it wins some will say it only won because of who handled it.

An inexperienced handler can make a great dog look bad, does this mean that the dog should still win because of who the dog is.