Great GSD site - Page 2

Great poem, Echo! Can someone please explain the ZW number to me? What does it mean, and how is it calculated? Thanks!

Sunsilver, the explanation of "ZW" is that it is the Zuchtwert or "breed value" of the dog or bitch. I will be very brief here. For example a dog (whose ancestors are not known) is examined and determined to be "a" Normal. This dog is assigned a breed value of 100 until he begins to produce. If he is mated with a bitch who has an identical value, they are expected to produce at a value of 100, the average of their ZW scores. With a value of 100 the breeding pair will produce mostly "a" Normal, some "a" fast Normal, a few "a" noch Zugelassen, and a very small number of dyplastic puppies. If they produce better than expected, their ZW scores will become lower, and if worse they will become higher. I think you can see where I am going with this. As successive generations are developed and the offspring are crossed into the offspring of other matings of calculated ZW values the true ZW of the dog and bitch becomes more apparent. Once a dog or bitch has a ZW, it will be affected by every single puppy that is tested in succeeding generations for that these dogs are responsible. As you can see, after many generations the numbers have greater value. But, never be fooled by a dog's hip rating alone. It is possible that a dog has "a" Normal hips but has a ZW of 135 or higher because he produces poorly. And it is possible that a dog having "a" noch Zugelassen hips has a ZW in the 80's bcause he produces better, or "improves" as we say. It all depends of the averages of the sums of their ancestors, siblings, progeny, etc.. The more dogs that are examined show the more meaningful ZW. Here is the one (1) problem with ZW. Say a puppy is examined and found to have faulty hips. Upon seeing this the records of the examination are destroyed and never submitted to the S.V.. The true production (and true ZW) of the mating pair is not affected in a negative way, as it should be. In other words, the ZW of the sire and dam are not altered and will appear to be better than they really are. The S.V. has an online ZW database at this link: http://www.schaeferhunde.de/site/index.php?id=688 Regards, Bob-O

Bob, Specifically why people should check the box (I know OFA has it on their application) to make the results public even on the prelims. I know I did and mine already show on the OFA website. davegaston, Nice site. I love that.

There's another factor Bob-O didn't mention that is an extreme downside to the ZW system. The ZW is dynamic and changes. Your dog's ZW can be affected by what ahppens two generations removed... I bought one bitch that was a 69 when I bought her. Without ever producing a singl;e litter in Germany, with no pups yet old enough to OFA, all of a sudden, her ZW climbed into the high 70's because one of her aunts produced some dysplastic pups. Inversely, let's say your dog has poor hips and a high ZW, something distant in their family tree produces a run of good hips.... all of a sudden, your dog's ZW can lower??? How is this in any way an accurate system of what your dog will produce, sunce your chopice in mates will affect it more than the offspring of her aunt/thrid cousin or whatever, depending on the lines THEY were bred out to! Moral of the story - don't put too much stock in the numbers on the ZW... instead, I would suggest researching the offsping and siblings in the first few generations yourself (as completely as you can) and go from there.

I just entered my dog, Denny Mihapa, and SHE came up listed as a MALE. Her birthdate is also 2 days off. I would have to say, not a very reliable or accurate site.

So, the site is dependent on owners entering their own dogs? Or does the info come from other sources as well?

sUNSILVER: eCHO DIDNT POST THAT POEM YELLOW ROSE DID....I WAS TELLING YOU HOW HE POSTED IT WITHOUT THE OLD GOOD OLE MESSAGE FORUM HE COPIED AND PASTED IT....4 PACK BEAT ME TO THE WORDS,,I WAS TRYING TO POST SOME PICS BUT COULDNT FIND ANY THAT WOULD COPY AND PASTE.....SO I JUST GOT THIS POEM FROM A FRIEND......THOUGHT ID COPY AND PASTE IT....TEXT WORKS USUALLY ITS THE PICS THAT WONT COPY UNLESS THEY ARE IN A CERTAIN IMAGE...

Oops, that's what happens when you're posting in the wee hours of the morning! You can't even read straight! My apologies, Yellow Rose!

hEY, NO PROBLEM , I POST AT 3 AM ALSO LAST NIGHT HERE IN TEXAS ,THE WIND BLEW 60 MILES AN HR AND WE LOST ELECTRICITY TILL 6 AM IM THE MORNING....I WAS OUTSIDE AT 2 WHEN IT WENT OFF AND PITCH BLACK SO I COULDNT EVEN LOOK AT THE SITE LAST NIGHT...... I HAVE A BIG GENERATOR AND ITS GOING DOWN TO 29 AND 28 TOMORROW NIGHT AND THE CO-OP I AM IN, HAS TERRIBLE HISTORY FOR NOT KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON...SO IM GETTING PREPARED....HAVE TO EMAIL MY SON TO TELL ME HOW TO TURN THE GENERATOR ON WIRING SPECS....WHOLE HOUSE RUNS ON IT AND I FORGOT HOW TO DO WHAT FIRST ,SECOND AND THIRD.....IS ANYONE ELSE OF OUR MEMBERS EFFECTED BY THE ICE STORMS ANYWHERE???????

Yellow, We're supposed to be getting some of the sleet and ice crap in here (Virginia). 'Been waiting all day for the junk and had to make a decision by noon to shut up work early to let me staff make it home safely. I took my chances and try to err on the safe side. So, we are closing up 45 minutes early to get a jump on the ice (especially these back roads in the mountains(blue ridge) but, thus far, looks like I'm closing up early for naught. I'd much rather have snow. Why the heck Virginia can't get a good, healthy snowstorm anymore just blows my mind. Hope everything is okay with you and that you get that generator going alright.