Bad Hips - Quality of life - Page 2

I really wish vets would not recommend euthanasia or surgery for dogs the minute they see a bad xray. It should be based on the individual animal and how he is compensating for not having perfect hips. If, as one poster to this board did only to prove a point, you run the dog for 3 miles a day and don't give him supplements or pain med if needed, then the dog is going to suffer.  If it hurts the dog,  don't do it, it's really not rocket science. When common sense prevails the majority of dogs with HD do just fine and many are never diagnosed. If every dog that ran the Iditarod had it's hips xrayed first, most would certainly have normal hips, but there would be some with hips that look like the ones in this thread. That's 1000 miles by dog sled, a far bigger challenge than most dogs will ever face in their lifetimes.

Its all down to how the dog is in himself as far as quality of life is concerned the dog should be happy and not in pain. He is only a young dog so his quality of life will be much more demanding than that of an older dog would be , so it all depends on how long he will be able to cope with those poor hips of his .......... the only things you can do apart from invasive surgery is to keep him warm indoors or very good heating in his kennel , a good Glucosamine & Chondroitin supplement, supplement with E.F.A.s  & keep him muscled up as best you can without causing him any discomfort, swimming in a hydro pool would probably be the best way, He will obviously need medication of anti imflamatory pain killers at some point to keep him from pain. I have seen worse hips than that on working dogs that never seemed to suffer till they got older the same as I've seen dogs that have been really crippled and in pain with much better X-rays than this dog . They are all individual when it comes to this . All that can be hoped for is that the owners will do the best they can for the dog whichever route they decide to take.

I have a 5 year old bitch with moderate displaysia. She has a UD, does PP, runs, jumps, climbs, can easily complete an obstacle course, and currently shows no signs whatsoever of discomfort, she moves beautifully (its a crying shame really, this a multiple time VP1 pup) and she is happy and healthy. Over the summer she swims regularly, is on vitamins and I keep her very lean. My daughter shows her in AKC juniors.  She's an active dog and you would never guess by looking at her- she can actually do a pirouette on her hind legs, its amazing. A bad xray does not always mean the worst. :)

Good Eye  I respectfully disagree with the statement " He will obviously need medication of anti imflamatory pain killers at some point to keep him from pain. " As we said depends on the dog. I seen plenty of dogs that did just fine never needing pain medicine including two of my own both of whom lived to 14 and led very active lives. The younger was a superlative herding dog. The few dogs w/ HD that I have seen that could be called crippling or showed significant long term pain ( some as noted above go thru a juvenile adjustment period and then grow out of it) tneded to be dogs w/ HD only on one side which makes sense in way because then they are out of balance.

 A  word for the wise. While these x-rays clearly show HD it aint always so when a vet says that to you. Get a 2nd opinion or have them submitted to OFA for a read ( yes Preston that is me saying that - only game in town and better than some of the uneducated and/or conmen out there "practicing"(key word) veterinary medicine.)  All too often today vets will fall into one of two categories when they see a GSD walk thru the door. The first uneducated but not beign because of the damage they do - are willing to diagnose HD for any motion, limp or pain sometimes even w/o an xray and usually w/o considering an injury, bee sting, panno, strain from an owner jogging a small pup a mile etc etc. The 2nd are the ones with $$$$$ in their hearts and minds and see the possiblity of $5,000 or $10,000 from what in reality in the vast majority of cases totally uncessary surgery. Have you read about the new operation they've come up w/ to subject ppor littel 5 month olds too- note before the joint is fully formed. It's "prophalatic" to insure they won't get HD - ARRGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! (of course at great cost to owners)

What really gets me about both these types is the info is presented to the owner thusly - your dog had HD and he will live a life of great pain so you must decide immediately to either put him down or mortage your home so I may buy a bigger one. I have never ever heard of a dog owner be given the practical advice such as we gave above - those of us who know ahving lived w/ these animals or even wait and see how it goes. It's always right now - and you know a lot of dogs get PTS because the house is already mortgaged to the hilt.  This type of practionier needs to go into real estate instead. I would really love to see the vet profession step up and address some of these issues.

Hello Prodogz!

Please extend my sincere wishes for strenght to your club member. One can NOT speak about HD = hip dysplasia here, because THERE simply IS no HIP!!

There is no wellformed acetabulum, there is no hipbowl, no nothing!! It doesnt even look like a hip! And there is nothing that FITS together.

You know what the purpose of a joint is, don't you? What we see here doesn't even come close to what is called a joint. It's a ruine. I have been there, and I have given my dog his peace. Some backyardbitches (that are making Pedigreedatabase-users believe they have just received a Nobel-prize in canine biology ) called me a murderer, but then they have nothing else to do than judge other people while hanging on the internet chatting their lives away (whilst lecturing others (even vets!!) about subjects THEY only know from browsing the internet!! GGGuh!)

Anyway; people that knew the dog understood there was no other option for Indiana. I'm not sure where you live, but it will probably NOT be in my neighbourhood. I would visit the dog, and spend a little time with him going about his daily life. THAT would certainly show me or at least give me a clue about how deep his pain is.

Please feel free to write me in private ( j.demeyere@skynet.be) , I will be glad to help you and your friend through this ordeal (which it certainly will become, soon enough).

Would be nice if you could fill me in with some more information,  who is part of the family, any (small) kids? can the dog leave the premises when something happens to the hip...

Jantie,  If this happened to be directed at me -"whilst lecturing others (even vets!!) about subjects THEY only know from browsing the internet!! GGGuh!)" I have had GSDs since 1963 not one dog like you. I personally have owned and lived with three dogs that had severe hip dysplasia. With my first like with you initially there was anger until I learned more. With all there was the initial worry and the loss of hopes and dreams. The last one was the last one of my line from a dam of my breeding w/ a solid hip pedigree and a sire known to produce excellents. The dice rolled the wrong way and  because he was neutered I lost a line of wonderful stable sound pretty dogs with great herding ability.  They all lived healthy strong active PAIN FREE lives and let me tell you I take very good care of my dogs ( $487 bill just today ). I have been studying dog genetics and specifically GSD genetics from BEFORE I owned GSDs. I have worked my dogs in obedience, schutzhund, agility and herding. I myself walk on 2 canes or arm crutches due to mobility problems so I  am very familiar with what challenges orthopedic problems can bring and certainly would not ignore or not be able to see pain my dog might be having.

So feel free to tell me I know nothing. I will let the readers make their own judgment.

I have never entered into the discussion of your dog feeling it was a very tragic situation and while I like others may have handled it differently I believe strongly that each owner knows their dog the best and if they truly love their dog they will listen to it and make the best decision for the two of them. I mourn with you the loss of your dog and your hopes ( equally as hard). I pray that God will grant you peace of understanding that you did the best you could with the knowledge you had at the time. No one not even Indiana would expect more from you. I hope that someday you will have the perspective to see that the best way to honor Indiana and the love he brought to your life is to risk loving another . He would want that for you. I strongly believe that a very important part of the GSD genome is the "shepherding" of their owners. So be still and listen and he may speak to your heart and lead you to another to love.

"I can bet every old timer on this board has had at least one dog with hips this bad or worse that lived to a ripe old age without a problem and probably came from pretty solid hip lines. As Jackie says shit happens"

I have one such dog - and her x-rays are every bit as bad as yours.  The only time we have noted problems, and they are minor, are if she gets cold and wet.  Two years ago when she was diagnosed, the vet gase us this huge Dermaxx prescription and I have only given her 5 pills.  She doe NOT have the range of motion my other dogs have though and does bunny hop on a run.

The litter ZW at the time of breeding was 78

While plenty of dogs with much less severe hips show pain, she has an unbridled level of energy and runs and plays most of the day. She does let us know when she hurts because she is one of those dogs who will yelp her head off when she gets a needle at the vet, a thorn in her paw, etc. and her gait has stiffened on those few times when she complained.  

We keep her lean.  We leep her rear leg muscles very strong excercise as that is what holds the hip together.   She gets a good glucosamine supplment.  She has had no surgery and the orthopedic vet did not recommend at this point and called it a last resort surgery for a dog that is otherwise debilitated.  Keeping the rear musculature firm is imperitve - most real old (just old,not necessarily dysplastic) dogs that I have seen go down in the rear loose that muscle mass in the back leg.

I retired her from SAR work but she does still work on a boat for water search as she really does not seem at all bothered.   FYI, even with the bunny hop she is my quickest dog on the run - very fast.

I had another GSD who the vet told us to PTS at 9 months.  He lived 15 years and 13 of them were most normal. He started having trouble going up and down stairs at 13.

My second German Shepherd, Dana, had a Grade 3 HD. She never had surgery.  She lived out her life to 12 1/2 years of age, and never showed any signs of lameness,  or pain. She had to be euthanized due to Degenerative Myleopathy. (Sorry if spelling is wrong.)

Every dog is different. It is not always a death sentence for a dog. If the quality of life is lacking, then it would be pure selfishness on the owner's part, but it is a VERY HARD DECISION to make for any dog owner, whatever the issue/illness.

Dawn

Two quick points. My personal opinion is that a dog w/ good ligamentation and a bit on the lighter side will fair better than an overweight loose ligamented dog ( tho I've seen some ofthose tht you just wonder what strange alchemy holds them together and they have good hips so go figure).

Re the bunny hopping - same as strong agile, athletic not diagnostic. Known dogs fit either or  both categories - some dysplastic others not. Same deal w/ "frog legs" too tho mine that have done that always had great hips.

Agree 100% with TIG.  Just use common sense, don't overwork the dog asking it to do more than it can do comfortably, give it a good joint supplement and a pain med like Ascriptin ( buffered aspirin) if it's ever needed. I worked for 5 different vets for many years and TIG is correct, a GSD is always dysplastic in most of their minds. Some are the same with all large breeds. One Malamute puppy I bred was presented to the local vet for a well puppy exam .The vet took one look at him - he was very large boned as are most Malamutes- pulled on his rear legs and declared - this dog is dysplastic and will need me to do surgery on him very soon. He was 10 weeks old. At 24 months he received an OFA excellent.

TIG, Jantie is probably referring to me. Ask me if I care.