Training methods for non-SchH dogs - Page 2

 As a full time trainer in the pet training business for over 2 decades now, I have a different spin on things. All the time, "new" trainers come along, and take something that was old and make it "new" again. They may add their new twist on it, but it's still based on the same old principles. Cesar, Ivan, all of them. They may explain it in a different way so it hits people differently, but it's still the same thing. Ivan for instance (whose style I use for my schutzhund dogs) did nothing more really then take the long standing principles of operant conditioning, and breaking things down into manageable pieces so a sequence behavior can be "shaped" and apply it to schutzhund. A new spin yes, but it's not new information. Cesar does a LOT based on the information of those that have gone on before. His "pack" is not new, trainers have been using large field socialization groups for at LEAST 20 years to help dogs fit in, Cesar just made it visible on television. You could take any trainer and more then likely, they have just put a new spin on an old piece of information. SOME of the older training styles have since been disproven, or have become outdated as newer theories have been learned. For instance, the alpha wolf rollover described in monks. years ago, it was the most popular training technique. Do you have any idea how many people got themselves bit in the face using it? Also, from what I understand among other trainers (though I've never taken the time to confirm it yet) I believe that the monks have since changed some of their tunes especially regarding the alpha wolf rollover. The rollover was based on faulty information founded on studies of wolves. When you study ethology, and learn about actual wolf behavior, you can find that it's not very common for a wolf to use physical force to subdue lower status animals. It is more about how you LIVE among each other, then it is about who is strong enough to physically force another animal to submit. (Kind of like a king that comes in and forces someone to their knee, verses earning the respect of the people so that when he walks into a room they kneel out of respect for him, not because they were forced there). Also, we're learning that while dogs and wolves are alike in some ways, they're not in all ways. There's a theory that there was actually a species in between wolves and dogs, and that they weren't entirely true pack animals. They would come into packs to hunt, but then separate again after full. 

Not to challenge someone's long standing belief system or anything, I've actually had to rethink a LOT of what I"ve learned over the last how many years. 20 years ago, it was mainly Koehler method and that was that. There's so much more information out there. 

Rather then try to go with a particular method, better idea might be to find a solid trainer (one who is not such a fanatic that they think they know it ALL and that there's nothing more to learn) and work with them. A good trainer is worth his/her weight in gold for being able to spot trouble spots, and being able to apply a wide range of methods to suit the particular dog in front of him/her. If you get locked into a particular style, you'll get into the mind frame that it must be that you must find the dog to match the style, when in reality, it's truly the other way around, you must match the style to the dog. 

Hope this helps!

 Great information Shasta, and I especially loved your view of evolving training methods and rethinking old style methods like the alpha roll. I too am re-evaluating old beliefs I've held about training, which is why I started this topic. I think the most important point that you made in your post is that dogs are not wolves, with all the talk of pack leadership and pack dynamics and the close relationship between wild and domestic canines, I know that fact often gets shoved into the shadows.