Best e-collar for training?

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by senta on 24 November 2007 - 22:11

By the way: perhaps it would be helpful to learn the new methods to train dogs - fair and friendly. A dog will do all for you if you will love him serious.

by Louise M. Penery on 24 November 2007 - 23:11

senta,

You are welcome to your opinion and to expressing it. However, what you are telling me is that you personally have no experience with nor exposure to the correct, humane usage of the e-collar. Anything (either positive or negative) you have heard about the e-collar is appears to based on hearsay rather than on personal experience.

If you choose not to train with an e-collar, that is you prerogative. However, please don't condemn those of us who use e-collars and insinuate that we are in abnormal, inhumane monsters, lazy, or lacking in love for our dogs.

When I visited the lovely SVÖ training field in Vienna in 2005, I witnessed all manner of training--e-collars, food, toys, clickers, etc. The point I'm trying to make is that there is no "right way" of training dogs so long as the the method is humane and corrections are "fair".

You may believe me when I state that I have not been inhumane nor have I caused my dogs to suffer "pain" during the time I have been training the GSD since 1964.

Good luck in training your dogs with the method you feel most comfortable.

by senta on 25 November 2007 - 00:11

No pain can with e-collar can be fair. Dogs are social, human perhaps not. Whatever you think and what you said about my personal experience is FALSE , Louise M. Penery. I saw enough train with e-collars with very professionell people like police and other people. I would not spaek about anything what I only hearsay... really not. And when I observe ( in my person 5 m nearly me! ) it so often you cannot imagin - I hate it every case. BECAUSE: never the people look to their own mistakes over the time the trained their dog. All the time the dog "do not what they want and how they want it". That cannot be the right way to train dogs with e-collars. Would you use that collar ( or something like that method ) for a child what will not do what you want? A normal gsd want to work. And you could try it - without e-collar he will show you how much he want to work and how happy he is to work. If the method is very old - perhaps TO OLD for new methods train dogs. It is the time to change the method to train dogs. Methods like Dildei are very contended during last years. The new thing is - train without this antiquated methods, not only with gsd - with other animals too. It is a luck that here we have the new law about "forbidden e-collars" because animal protection. And that is good so. I am happy because this law exist. And in succession of this law the methods to train dogs are changing - slow changing, in police-training too.

by glbtrottr on 25 November 2007 - 01:11

"FYI, virtually all of the truly credible, successful trainers (including Joanne Plumb, Gottfried Dildei, Ivan Balabanov, Bernhard Flinks, etc.) and podium-level competitors use the e-collar for fine-tuning their dogs at one time or another."

Having worked with at least a couple of these names, as well as a couple more (Wallace Payne, etc)., all in the last...ummm...12 months, I can personally attest to their use of E-collars. And it is for very specific reasons.

Just about everyone I have seen uses the Dogtra, with one exception using tritronics.

I will *not* use an e-collar until I can get much better at when and how to use one as instructed by others much better than myself...and it will be a while.

Out of curiosity, how much interest would there be in holding an e-collar only class? A little different than a couple of bites , a couple of retrieves and a couple of heel corrections on a weekend, no?

by olskoolgsds on 25 November 2007 - 04:11

I have a Dogtra 1500 NCP. I purchased this about a year ago after researching it for awhile. I cannot say which E-collar is best though.
I just wanted to point out what I percieve to be a flaw in reasoning.
Life is painful. Lessons learned are painful. Corrections, disciplines, and the best learned lessons in life usually involve some type of pain. When some discomfort is administered properly and with the best interest of the reciever and at the proper time, then it is the best option at that time.

If you want to see training that avoids any form of discomfort then go to Pet Smart and watch the show.

P.S. I spanked my children when they were young. Always with their best interrest at heart, not because they pissed me off.
They have thanked me years later. Pain is not a bad word, just in the way it is administered.

by animules on 25 November 2007 - 05:11

Louise, Very excellent post and explanations. A tool in the right hands used correclty is wonderful. Used incorreclty is horrible. I have seen both.

At Ivan's seminar we took dogs to, our male had an e-collar on for part of the time. Ivan is one I would trust completely, totally, to use it correctly. It was a great part of the seminar to see a correclty used e-collar to work through an issue that had created a brick wall. The wall is gone and the dog making great improvement.

We have the innotek system where each control can have two collars. It has a tone and various settings. It's controller is small enough to hang on a lanyard around our neck while working. Not one of the fancier systems but has worked for us and is easy to carry.

by harddawg on 25 November 2007 - 07:11

I use Dogtra. I like the waterproof receiver and tranmitter versions with adjust stim levels. I purchase mine on ebay where I can save 40 bucks or so.

The e-collar is a tool like any other. Used improperly it causes damage like any other tool we use.

It's a great tool but you must learn to use it correctly. Naysayers might as well put away their chokes, prongs and maybe even leashes because those can be harmfull too.

by senta on 25 November 2007 - 10:11

olskoolgsds: "P.S. I spanked my children when they were young. Always with their best interrest at heart, not because they pissed me off. They have thanked me years later. Pain is not a bad word, just in the way it is administered." This words with this content are for me more than important reasons - never sell a gsd-puppy to such people in such hands. Never - for no money. I am appalled at this. Cannot believe what I read here. Unbelievable for me today in our time. If that is the only "helpful" answer to that question in the beginning of this discussion I am really disappointed about this antiqued and obsolete methods to train dogs and about the presumably only idea to train dogs. It pains me. Poor dogs. I didn¿t thought before that people use this methods - for children and for dogs - at present really. It shokes me. I thought - human has learned.... The world changed in education and learning. Today we work here in this country with motivation-training and positive enhancement. The sciences today clarifys definitely that learning has something to do with positive emotions and positive memories and negative: with ignorance. Without postive emotions during learn-prozess we cannot learn ( our dogs too not ). With pain we would be blocked for anything learning. Our dogs too. If anybody would read a present book or would make oneself competent about education dogs, the social life of dogs - the answer is easy. I am really deep disappointed .... and it makes me sad.

by Dawn G. Bonome on 25 November 2007 - 14:11

Just my humble opinion, but if anyone suggests that I use an e-collar for my dog, I will run the other way. These dogs are smart. What does an e-collar prove? If I cannot control you, you will get zapped? No.. that will not be for me. Dog training is ALOT of hard work, and it is something that is done on a constant basis.

I want to train with love and respect, not for the dog to cower and fear me, waiting to get shocked.

Everyone will do what they want when it comes to training, but the title means nothing to the dog, they only want to be with us, and please us.

This is just my opinion.

Dawn

by KYLE on 25 November 2007 - 16:11

Corrections are for willful disobedience of learned and known commands. Not for teaching !

Kyle

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