Looking for input from pedegree people..... - Page 2

Is this the pup that was on the database back a few weeks?  if so , I thought it was a Max v Tiekerhook pup with Debby as the dam/

Or is this another pup you are looking at buying.....?

That is a lot of line breeding in one pedigree (and they say Americans line breed :)  You would have to do your home work and wiegh the good and bad ie temperaments, hips, elbows, skin problems, structures, working ablities and ect  not only in the dogs in the pedigree but in siblings of those dogs. Then it is up to you IF you are willing to take the risk. JM2C

The linebreeding isn't really that bad.  It's actually 4-5 on Timmy and 3-4 on Xato but the way the database is set up it looks like alot of linebreeding.

I already emailed Zeus and gave him my opinion  and it was   not a good idea   to close in the back end   way too close and not only on the Debby side but ad the other and being I have talked to other breeders on this same line together,,,,it isnt , IMO, a good match...IOW   I wouldnt breed this match up....

Too close both top and bottom...what was that song I am my own grandpa...seriously no one is thinking of the health of the puppies at all here...we dont marry our second cousins ...why would anyone think that this is good breeding for dogs..dogs, cows, people double up on a already small gene pool and see if some ears are not on backwards... Marlene

I don't mind a little line breeding but me personally that was too much for me . but again to each is thier own

So what I am hearing is that when you line breed on some of the best working dogs around that have proven themselves over and over again both on the field, on the streets, health / hipps and in their progeny then it is not a good idea.  So if I throw in their a male with less qualified pedegree but different dogs than that would be ok.  I am not being snotty or upset I just dont understand, how someone does a 2-2 breeding and he is a genius, an innovator and no I am not comparing myself to this person because he has proven himself over and over again.  The closest line would be 3-4 on Xato is that too close or is the problem that their is a lot of Fero 5 generations back.

What I was saying is research you dogs in your pedigree and sibling. When ever you line breed reguardless once or muliti times you are doubling/trippling up on the GOOD AND BAD. Look past the titles and look more towards the gentic part.

No one said use a lesser of the dog. (went back and reread all the entries)  what we are saying that it is too high of a risk to be taking FOR US but then again it is you who is doing the breeding and you that will be replacing IF it does not turn out right in 2 years!

"Someone throws in a 2 on 2 and is a geniues" it sounds like you have a person in mind when you said this. Without seeing the 2 on 2 we can not comment but I do know that there are some dogs i e  Titus z PS that you can double and NO there are no problems. Again it depend on the doubling up.  Personally I would not personally do a 2 on 2 with Titus or any dog for that matter.

Xeus The dogs are excellent in the pedigree this is not the issue the issue is when you double up on  SEVERAL common ancestors on BOTH sides no matter how good health, hips and working ability is the bad genes will magify as well.  Do you want a sick dog a dog with supressed immune system disorder or worse...as far as the breeder who does 2-2  being a genius  that would be up for opinion as well.  People in Europe are master dog breeders they do not breed this extreme most of the dogs in this years WUSV or dogs that had sons in the WUSV saw no excessive line breeding  most had no common ancestors for five generations, maybe do some more home work before you buy ,call some of the famous kennels Karthago, Vom Sevens, Saltiblitz, van de Biezenhoeve, von der Mohnwiese and ask them for imput.. They say line breeding on a good dog can be great but to line breed on dogs already closely line breed in my opinion would be a mistake. If you like this then buy it it is your choice.   Marlene   

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/470496.html

here's the link to one of my girls.  she has more linebreeding and closer, too.  i assure you, she does not have her ears on backward.  :) :)

if i might ask.......what exactly are you trying to accomplish with the suggested breeding?  are you looking to set in certain traits?do you like the appearance of the dogs?  do you have a plan in mind for the next generation - subsequent breedings?  do you have people already interested in buying pups of this sort of breeding?  it is fine to look backward on the pedigrees to see what your dogs have come from, but it is equally important to look to the future with a plan in mind on where the breeding will take you and your dogs.  is this something you want to build on?  how much do you know about the dog's ancestors?  i have a pretty fair amount of fero in some of my other dogs and i have learned from experience, trial/error what combinations with fero that i like and which ones to stay away from.  just a matter of personal preference.

good that you asked opinions on this breeding.  that indicates that you are putting some thought into it.

pjp