Lets talk hips - Page 2

Am I wrong to say the GSD is a medium-sized breed of dog...???  And what I know Large to Giant breed dogs tend to grow slower due to the mineralization process in the bones... Can we agree that wither height and long bone growth should stop growing at age of 8 to 9 months... and from then on... all lateral growth...

It is absolutly ture there is a hereditary componunt to HD and ED, but virtually all large (and many smaller) breeds have the genetic potential for it. Some dogs you can do everythtng 'right' and they end up dysplastic as we all know, and others can have everything done 'wrong' and have no dysplasia...but MOST dogs are a product of both genetics and care/feeding/exercise. There is some luck involved here as well.

Dog foods were originally developed as a side busines by livestock feed companies as they saw a whole new and very profitable market available with our dogs.  The faster a pig or steer got to butcher size the more cost effective for the farmer. Dog food was also desigend to cause rapid growth. How meany pet owners queate size to qualitey!  You hear "My dog was 60 lbs at only 5 months old!" as if this was something to be proud of. When you push bones and joints in an UNATURAL way (feed for more rapid growth than is natural) then many dogs will suffer joint damage from the overstress. Bones don't fully calicfy until  about 1 year, with the biggest time frame for damage being 4-9 months old.

There is no such thing as a "puppy food rabbit" in nature. The pack members start regurgitating food for the litter (easier to carry the kill in their stomachs) as part f the weaning process. Once weaned (by 9 weeks) they are eating the same stuff they will eat the rest of their lives. So, when we feed them in an unnatrutal way, a way that sitmulates too rapid of growth for the genetic design of that creature, does that really mean the genetics are defective because problems develop?

Many years ago I went to a dog nutritional seminar from a Vet. that had been in practice since BEFORE the development of 'dg foods' . He said the incidence of dysplasia, alleries, immune system diseases and cancers continued to rise as dog foods became more widely used.

The junk that goes into 'dog food' is mostly grains, which they do not digest well due to their proportionally very short intestingal tract. The 'meat' can bethe worst possible...usually the '4 D's" (dead, diseased,decomposing, dying). Dead animals of all types are 'cooked down' (ncluding dead pets!) and the 'meat proteine meal" can end up in animal feeds.  Some 'dog foods' use better quality meats, but it is not easily verifiable, and is not always the same form batch to batch. I feed a small amount of kibble in the morning, and raw foods in teh evening. I breed from x-rayed stock and cross my fingers!

When growth stops...well that depends on how the dog was fed to some degree. I feed for slower growth, and most of my dogs gain at least 1 inch in height after 1 year old.

Raw meats contain natural vitamin c  which helps the colagen stay in the joints for laxity and slow growth will make the formation much less harsh on pup...

The dog foods that are produced for    large breed dogs,,,,,,I thougth were suppose to help slow the growth......some vets say that too much minerals in the adult ratio is unsafe for a pup.....

I like raw as much as possible with kibble in case of emergency.....and when travelling..

http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0039.htm   There are three more articles about raw meat containing the natural vitamin c    never use vitamin c over the counter.....order    ester c  

Luvmidog  thank you for the article on ester C it was very interesting. But it left many more questions unanswered.

Why do we not see a huge amount of wolves, foxes  getting HD, could there be something to the raw diet like you said there is natural vit C in fresh kill.

Has anyone done the ester C with results either way?

humm...that would be an intresting study tho...to see if wolves have the same problem.......wolves get involved with hunting when they are still young right?...they are doing alot of harsh excercise when bringing down a large kill...if they can do that without damanging hips--then maybe would show what causing it most....diet and/or rough excercise/ play...or if it is genetic, then most of them would end up with it right? wolves dont have anyone picking out their mates for them.....

Referring to your quote EK: "CHD has a genetic basis, with heritability most frequently estimated to be about 0.30. For example, a heritability of about 0.3 indicates that about 30% of the variation in occurrence of CHD is attributed to parentage, while the remaining 70% is attributable to environmental factors or interactions with environmental factors."

Please do put your figures up to date.

Latest scientific findings at the University of Hannover (with Prof. Dr. Distl) have documented the heritability of CHD at no less than 90%. So let us put things into perspective. If hips are sound, you will have a tremendously hard job ruining them by environmental factors! Unless you throw your dogs from the balcony.

The numbers you give are a total misrepresentation of the actual facts. Even the SV has already documented the rate at 50-60% in their Jubilee-Issue. So let's be honest. It has been proven within other canine populations, that using solely HD-1 (HD-free) parents will almost eradicate HD in very few generations. Of course using HD-2 dogs will lead you nowhere.

Are you aware of the fact, that workinglinedogs give 20% more of HD-free offspring than showlines?