protecting the kids.... - Page 2

don....i wouldnt say you were off on that....i think he is starting to think that he is sometimes...and i know..i know..thats my fault....lately tho , when he seems to get a little to pushy, i will lay him down and roll him over, with his head to the floor, not rough tho cause he does not fight me on it.....but it does seem to help f....he will just lay there, perfectly still untill i say "free"....after that he listens to every command for a while...when he messes up..i will do it again to remind him...

It sounds like you are letting Boss know who's the boss, with your submission exercise, so I wouldn't worry about that part much. 

You need to pay close attention to when he gets involved, with whom, and how far he wants to take it.  Most family dogs get excited when there's too much rough-housing, spankings, etc.  As long as the dog is taking the role of peacemaker and doesn't promote himself to judge, jury, and executioner, it's actually a good thing. 

If some whackjob tries to snatch one of your children, you don't want Boss to sit and watch.  At the same time, if your child and a friend get into a slugfest, you don't want Boss to eat the other child.  What you're asking is not an easy thing to answer. 

Large protective dogs like GSD's get much of their bad reputation because owners don't put enough importance on controlling this aspect of the dogs behavior.

I had to put down a wonderful dog years ago because I didn't manage his protective instincts properly and he bit a child. 

Pay attention.

On a lighter note;

We had a rough collie when I was young that was totally devoted to me.  It was one of those "wait 'til your father gets home" days and Dad forgot Child Rearing Rule #1 when he came busting out of the house and grabbed me.  CR Rule #1 is Tie up that damned dog!  How many of you can remember the very first really important decision that you ever had to make?  I can.  As old Tam stood there with one foot on each side of my Dad's head and his barred teeth inches from Dad's face, I'm thinking to myself "call him off? or not?" 

RuegersDad---love the way you put that! peacemaker...yup, that pretty much describes what he is doing when it comes to me and the kids...and this>>>If some whackjob tries to snatch one of your children, you don't want Boss to sit and watch.  At the same time, if your child and a friend get into a slugfest, you don't want Boss to eat the other child.  What you're asking is not an easy thing to answer. <<<<thats exactly what i meant...you put it in better words than i did...

and your right...main thing and only thing i can really do is>>pay attention...

i hope your dad didnt make you get rid of your dog after that...did he?

iluvmyGSD,
JMO, but if I were in your shoes I would be very happy with Boss.  Dogs sense vulnerability with their family. Go to a park some time and lay down on a bench like your taking a nap and watch your dogs reaction to strangers appoaching. They will respond with much more aggression then if you are standing.  I do believe they know the weakness, and vulnerableness of each family member. If you go to a part of town with some rougher street people around they will be more protective. Watch how they play with each family member. My dogs will hurt me, hurt me real good when playing. With my wife they are far far more gentle. With children they will not even go there. They know the pecking order and they know the ones that can take care of themselves and the ones that can't. When my children were younger  and at home they would tell me how someone approached them at a signal light waiting to cross the street and how the dog moved in between them and showed definate distrust, warning for  the person, especially if it was someone that looked mean or nasty. They know the difference.
IMO your dog simply recognizes that your children are vulnerable and will instinctively want to protect them or stop any thing that would hurt them. You can have your children hit you and I believe their reaction would be far different. I would do as has been mentioned, discipline them in another room. Personally I would never want to take that trait out of them, infact I would probably buy the dog a stake dinner for telling you to leave them alone. They usually can tell the difference in play and real as well. This is why good agitation IMO has to be psychological as well as physical. Good luck with both.

I had not read RuegersDad when I posted. He brings up a good caution. How far will the dog take it and the protectiveness must be with discernment. In reading your thread it appeared to me that this was not an issue but if it is then you do need be aware of the potential danger such as kids playing with your kids.

My house is a zoo at times; most of the time and when we first got Agar we really tried to talk to the 2 older girls (10, 7) about beating the tar out of each other.  We weren't sure how our new dog was gonna take to it all.  Well the first couple times he heard yelling his ears went up and he was immediately placing himself between the situation monitoring it closely.  I never really corrected him for it because quite honestly he helped me regulate the kids when they started at each other.  Now a year later he's so used to our crazy house that he rarely bothers to intervene; however if anyone other than our immediate family goes close to the baby he will put himself between the "outsider" and the baby.  I don't correct him for this behavior because that's his job to look out for the family.

Now if he were showing signs of aggression placing himself in between family members arguing or a parent giving a swat on the butt to one of the kids then I think at that point we'd have to take care of that behavior right away.  It doesn't sound like Boss is doing anything out of the ordinary.  Maybe this was just the first time he ever saw you react that way so he really wasn't sure what he should do??  I'm not telling you to start beating the kids more frequently so he gets used to it either....but I think you get what I'm saying.

I had this shepherd named Jake. My friends could always come in my yard and play fetch with him and I was really wondering if someone would steal him because he was so nice. One day we were fooling around and Jake didn't like it. He ran them from my house to their house and on the roof of their car. The next day jake seemed like he couldn't care less, but those guys would never come around unless my boy was in the house. Jake is dead now but he is the BEST shepherd that I have ever known. What's special about a dog like that is I think its hard to get one like that on purpose because you have to wait until he is mature for him to get to that point and by then no one will get rid of the dog and I wouldn't want to take a dog that was that attached to someone. Those dogs are special because you only get them by chance. If anybody knows a way to breed for that let me know because I can use another Jake.
 

I don't  know?     This one really can go both ways.    I like that Boss, got between the boy and your daughter.    But,  with out witnessing first hand how he is reacting to you and your daughter ,when she gets a swattin,  would make it hard to jugde.    You said he was whining and not sure what he should do?    My concern would be that he might decide that it would be a good Idea to join in on the punishment.    Instead , of protecting.    In pack behavior, the weaker more beta position  ( your daughter)   would be the target for other pack members should the alpha (you) decide to punish.     Although,  pack members will not punish the puppies, rather protect them,   until they reach a more adolesant age.    This too might be the case with Boss.  He might be actually viewing your daughter to be of a puppy age , and therefore need protecting .      But , as she gets older , he might decide that she is due for a correction, when you decide to correct.   

I personally do not allow my dogs to participate in my decision to punish or scold my daughter.    Because as with all animals, the behavior can become a dominance issue ,  even if it starts small.       Do you really want  Boss telling you by a dominance gesture(  squeezing between you, and giving you that look )   down the road, that you need to let go of , or not touch your own child.    No, way !    Eventually he will growl or bark at you because all the other times you allowed him to stop you from what you were doing.   So,  I would scold or punish my daughter, and then as needed scold or punish the dog for his inappropriate  behavior.  

A good dog is a good dog.    And in that I mean , if he has it in him now to protect your daughter from the older boy that he thinks is trouble .   Then,   he will continue to do such things.    But,  if does not respect you as pack leader ,  how will you call him off should you have to.   He is a young dog is this correct?      If so,   then he will only get more confident in himself the older he gets..   and he sure doesn't need to get confident at telling you what to do,. 

lets say you were the alpha dog in a wild pack,  and boss was secod in charge  in this wild pack.    you would pick the best place to sleep, the first to eat,  you would have the top position no matter what,  with out any guilt , or remorse for keeping the rest of the pack in line.   you would not allow any of the pack members to harm the puppies, in fact they know that the puppies are for the survival of the pack.    Knowing all of that,    do you think boss would decide not to fight or defend his pack from a stray straggler, just because he was not alpha in your wild pack.   No,   he most definately would  fight or protect his pack regardless of being the alpha..    

So,  sorry for all of the babble.   But, my point is   Don't have guilt or remorse for keeping your pack member in line, for fear that he will lose the desire to protect.     He will actually protect you stronger if he respects you and your children. 

Just my thoughts !  :  )

good luck !

very confusing question huh? guess there really is no right or wrong in this....as of now, yes, boss is doing exactly as i want him to do, showing protection for the kids...just gotta make sure he doesnt end up thinking he needs to protect them from me...as AgarPhranicniStraze1 says..he will probaby get use to me correcting the kids...but as her dog did..not outsiders...and yep agar..i get what your saying

olskoolgsds----your opinion is right...i am extremely happy with boss...

watsongsd...lol...dont we all wish to know the secret of how to re-breed our favorite dogs?? humm...maybe cloning will end up being useful...jk..

Jamille...>>>I like that Boss, got between the boy and your daughter.  <<<i do to, like i said, the kids have turned out to be bad news...the last time they were here, i believe they terroized daisy, my little rat terrier....i heard some commotion and went out the door...daisy was running up the steps, the oldest kid right behind her...she hid under a little statue, pressed her self up against the wall, and stay there stiff a growling.. daisy NEVER acts like that...so i asked the kid what happened whats was going on? he said , " ..he didnt know, that she was being mean to him" then he still tried to reach under there and grab her??!!! i had to yell at him, to leave her alone, that she didnt want to be messed with...finally he sulked off, complain about her being mean....i went to pick her up, to bring her inside...and she wouldnt even let me pick her up! she growled at me! never had she done that before, she was just so terrified, i wanted to cry i felt so bad for her...she stayed like that for hours before she calmed down and went back to herself....i hope these kids never make the mistake of doing something like that to boss....come to think of it, it would probably be best for me to get a pad-lock for his kennel, for when i am gone

and this>>> My concern would be that he might decide that it would be a good Idea to join in on the punishment.>>>wow, that is a scary thought!!  i dont think i will have to worry about that tho...but its good for me to be aware of all the possiablites so i can know what to watch out for....oh yeah..BTW, yes he is young, 51/2--6 months old? i think?...lol..i need to get the calender out i guess....

thanks for the help everyone

i think he did the right thing, he was concerned and he got inbetween to stop it. He did not bite. My hero of a dog will always protect the kids. if you know your going to get after the kids, put him up. They do learn the difference between play and anger, My 2 gilrs when they were younger would cat fight, My Male ignored them, he did not like us to spank them, but he did not FORCE his opinion. He would also allow them to ruff house with the freinds, but never with another adult out of the immed. family. My husband has a cousin that wanted to see how he would react (always one in every family), my male pushed him into a wall with a bark and hold unitl I could come rescue him, Had I know what the Ahole did, I would have shown him how the bite works too. it just gets under my skin, all circle of family know what I have and why and there is still one who wants to test drive.