What's Better???? - Page 2

As mentioned, I can only share experience ( and that limited to one ddr dog ) and not opinion.
The male I have is the first ddr dog I have owned. The last time I was involved in working dogs the wall was still up, so this has been a real experience with this guy.
He is more civil then West dogs I owned in the past as a rule, but not always. He has bonded to me like no GSD I have ever owned, and thus I agree can contribute to being more protective. He has less drive then most working dogs I have owned. He is content to lay back and watch my female West German dog do all the watching and alerting and will wait until he sees it is for real before he gets up.
He is the most handler sensitive male I have ever owned and is usually wanting to please unlike my West girl.  Yet at the same time he does not show any fear and seems ready to take on most challenges from men, he gives no ground. 
FOR SURE he has been the slowest working dog I have ever owned to mature mentally, emotionally.  I thought when people said they were slow to mature they meant physically, but this was not the case with him. It has taked him almost twice as long to mature in his working attitude as it does with other gsd's I have owned.
flipfinish, IMO gsd's can be pleasers or stuborn , passive or aggressive, low or high drive. I have had a stuborn gsd and she was that way from day one. I am the boss. Any dog I have ever owned knows that, but I have had ones like her that will challenge that to the ground many times before they finally get it. They simply are not interrested in pleasing, only interrested in doing what they want. There are some that will just fight you until one day they figure it out that they arn't going to win. Now there may be newer methods of altering this sooner but that stuborn spirit can still be there. I could share lots of stories, about this girl especially,  that shouts INDEPENDENT. " I am going to win, I am going to get through that brick wall if it kills me " type of mentality.  Thanks

Yellowrose,

 The GSD has not been around that long. If one goes back far enough in a ped, all GSD's are related, and would all have some common dogs somewhere back there.

 To me a ped is most important. It can tell me many things. Of course its not infallible, but it gives one a basic direction. A ped is also like a recipe. If one ingredient is changed, it can throw off the whole result. A ped is also like a chain. Its probably only as good as its weakest link.

Now of course there are always exceptions. There are dogs who don't realize they are garbage bred and blow up all the According to Hoyle Working Dog Rules of breeding GSD's. But they are like needles in a haystack.

Greif may be in many peds, but what matters is, where in the ped is he? and what other dogs are there with him. If Greif had been bred to MaryMuffet of Tinkleberry Farm, the offspring would probably not have been the same as the offspring he produced out of top bitches.

You should note I said dogs  HEAVY in Greif.  I assure you that I am not the only person who has seen Greif dogs with Fight Drive off the charts.  When these dogs are in Maximum High Drive, they may not be the easiest to cool down. I have seen more than a couple who might take a cheap shot, as they enjoy being in High Fight Drive.

This fantastic bitch was a perfect example. Her scores would have been higher, had her Drives not been so high.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/412687.html

Her Scores were (1) 96  92  97 for 285       (2) 98  95  98 for 291   and for her Sch.3)  93  91  94 for 278

I'm not saying a hard and stubborn dog can't be controlled or be a great dog. Controlled and degreed, its still the same dog.

Yes and look at all the great dogs around her in that pedigree....

Olskoolgsds. Give your boy time and his handler sweetness will lessen and he will still be correct in a mature way. The boys are slower than the females. As he gets older though he will need more handler control. Enjoy the time.

Adhay:   VGrief  and V Pleuni v Buescher Schloss produced Half v BS who produced with Wanja v BS   ...the Cadet v Bs who was the sire of my foundation female   ZU   ....that is the only pedigree I had time to look at...Ive got to go feed some more mouths and let out the pups ....

ZU was a power house and many trainers worked her and one infact , took 11 stitches to his middle finger on the right hand....she got to her B" title and I lost my back to osteo....so she stayed in training and visited Kevin Henry and David Moore often to keep her amazingly fabulous in her work till she past a way   ....worked the week before we discoverd she had a cancer on her kidneys......I never put her title on her, but I didnt need the title to prove to anyone what she was ........she did it all along the way.....I had three trainers tried their dead level best to get her away from me ,  but I was in love with the greatest girl in Texas and she earned that title among a lot of people.... This is Zu and of all pups ,,,,a Pirol v Enclavehof   pup  who Zu trained  herself.....You notice hes looking very pointblank at me, like Zu told him to............

yellowrose of Texas,

What is that?

this is to Abhay:Ill take West German lines ,,thank you very Much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lolol I went off talking about DDR dogs posts back. The bitch I posted above who is 4-4 on Greif is only DDR on her very bottom. I have an old male who is 4-4 on Half as well.  I only have 2 DDR bred dogs. That is a very small percentage of my GSD's.

Here is what Ulf Kintzel has to say about DDR dogs. Even though he was born in East Germany, he's not a big fan of them, expect for the sheepherding lines, which frequently weren't even registered:

http://www.nwk9.com/east_german_shepherd_article.htm