Got the answer I expected. None! - Page 2

Marine Corps,  Lieutenant,   being a Marine is a privilege

Semper Fi

C. Wilkins

Sunsilver:  Yep, you got it right.  Problem is, we had to go get that fellow called Adolph, in his territory, and talking didn't work with him.  He only understood:  "16 empty missile tubes, 16 airborne Tridents"

C. Wilkins:  You old DevilDog    Thanks for serving.

Father - Navy

Husband - 33 year cop

Son - Navy (injured in boot camp) now cop

Daughter - clerk in Sheriff's office

You know where I stand.  Glad you have to balls to say what so many people don't.  The world needs more Shepherds and less sheep.

From the prior thread:

We are from two different backgrounds of bringong (sic) up and behavior attitudes. 

"Do right", not much you have said that I agree with - but you are right about the above!

You asked:

You have three children, one of them is a fourteen year old boy.  You are the father and when you are at work, your wife calls and tells you that your 14 year old son was sent home from school for spitting on another kid and your wife was ordering him to his room for the rest of the day, until his father gets home to deal with him.  But, your son tells his mother to go to hell and she grabs his arm and he hits her in her face with his fist.

Rather sophomoric example to prove your point but I'll play along.

May be I'd ask my wife to hand the phone to my son and start singing "Kumbaya" and if that did not help, I'd get us all on the Jerry Springer show and we'd have knock down drag out in front of a national audience!

Now the answer that you don't like because you clearly cannot relate to it: I actually do have three children and the way they have been brought up the situation you are describing - where any of my children would raise their hand against a parent - would NEVER happen in a million years! Something you will not be able to comprehend or relate to but like you say "we are from two different backgrounds...." etc,  When one raises children right that is the sort of quandry that one does not have to deal with. I could brag about my children and how well-placed they are in terms of the colleges they attended, the jobs they hold and how they are the type of kids that any parent would be proud of. But like I said, you would not be able to relate to all of this.

BTW, since you brought up draft dodgers, do you view Cheney as a draft dodger given that he sought and obtained five deferments to avoid serving in the military? He said "I had other priorities in the '60s than military service." Just curious - or is your contempt for draft dodgers limited to the likes of Clinton and liberals? I give you full credit for serving our country as a marine irrespective of other differences we may have.

The Cheney you so admire also said this - a view that has my whole-hearted agreement. So is Cheney a liberal or am I a conservative - or maybe your attempt to label people is the problem? Everything cannot be seen in terms of black and white.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY

lifeisbeautiful:  Well, well, finally got around to answering my question.  On no, wait.  My mistake.  You didn't answer it.  Just like GoldenElk.  You state that "it would never happen" because you are such a great parent and obviously my parents and myself are not so great.  At least, that is the underlying point of your diatribe.  Why is it so hard for a liberal to EVER take a stand and make a decision.  Leading (read: shepherding) is the ability to make a decision and get it done.  Following (read: sheep) is not leading (read: vote for Hillary and the wolves will have mutton for 4 years).

Let's see.  hmmm.  My mother was a waitress, my father worked for the B&O railroad.  Neither one went to college and neither one graduated high school.  I did not graduate high school.  My father served in the Navy and was in the Korean War.  My mother had 6 children.  One (me) received honorable discharges from both the Marines and the Navy, and is a retired Police Lieutenant, recognized by Congress for my career and for saving the life of a woman and a few other little things, (108th Congress) and "sponsored in this recognition by Dennis Kucinich (yes, that Dennis).  Another son of my mother plays professional baseball, another son of my mother is a house painter.  I have three sisters, one of which is a movie actress (she was in "Little Man Tate" with Jodie Foster and a movie called "City of Hope"), and several other movies and commercials that I don't remember the names of.  My other two sisters are a General Manager of a chemical company and a pharmacist.

I have three sons.  One in the Air Force, one works in a factory purifying water and one is in college, and works part time as a cop.

Yea, I see your point.  My parents did a lousy job, and so have my wife and I.  Although I must say, my three sons are men, not girls cowering in the corner with their hands over their eyes.  Hurt their mother and they will hurt you, no doubt about it.  Hurt their country and they will hurt your country, no doubt about it.  I raised them that way and I like it that way.

I am sorry that your children were raised by cowards who have never served their country but have only served themselves.  I am glad that your children all went to college (like Cheney and Bush), so that they also can avoid any military service that might be asked of them in the future.

I CAN relate to the simple little question that any parent should be able to answer, but you were unable to.  I can relate because I have seen that scenario many times during my career as a police officer.  You and GoldenElk remind me of Hillary.  Never answer a question, just weave and bob, avoiding any semblance of being able to make a decision and lead.  ASSUMING that my home life and that of my childrens home life, does not compare with yours, and that my and my wifes parenting skills do not and could never compare with your superior skills, is a hoot.  My parents raised men.  My wife and I have raised men.  You on the other hand,........ well, I won't go there.  Let's just end this little fracass with the simple fact that Cheney and Bush have done exactly as your children have done.  College and then chase the almighty dollar.  But Cheney and Bush are bad and your kids are good.  Must have been all of that fetal position exercises you did with them.

Please, please, have a lot of grandchildren.  More sheep is job security for us poor, illiterate, poorly raised shepherds.

Sunsilver,

Ronnie had not much to do with the end of the Cold War.  The "Evil Empire" collapsed under it's own weight of military expenditures, inefficiency, and just plain mismanagement.  Don't get me wrong, I liked Reagan, but that is like saying that he was totally responsible for the release of the Iran hostages two days after he came into office.  The end of the cold war was about 40 years in the making.  And a large pert of that was the deterrent factor of our nuclear capabilities, including the Trident submarine program.

ProudShepherdPoppa:

I got into an argument during my Police Academy training many years ago, about a similiar situation.  We were discussing the civil war (I don't remember why) and one of the black male recruits stated that Abe Lincoln didn't do anything for the black people.  That Lincoln had "industrial" reasons for what he did and the freeing of the slaves was just a by product of Lincolns actions, etc.  This other cop (I know his name but I will refer to him as C.B.), could not and would not, give any credit at all to Abe Lincoln for doing anything to help "his people".  I, being as I am, was the only one in the class that told C.B. that he was full of crap and I told him why.  His response was that the history books were written by whites and full of lies.  How can you argue with people that think like that?  What evidence can you put forth to attempt to win your own point of view, when they think that everything we know, is a pack of lies, and the only truth comes from what they have constructed in their own heads?  Same thing is happening now with all of these Bush and Cheney bashers.  They don't care about anything except, no matter what, Bush gets no credit for anything.  Not the stock market, not the unemployment figures, not the non attacks on our country since the infamous 9/11.  Nothing.

The truth is, when a "team" wins, the coach gets a lot of the credit, rightfully or wrongfully, the coach at the time should get his "props".  Ronald Reagan was the coach at the time.  When he made his now famous statments about the evil empire, the rest of the world gasped, and held their breaths.  Not he.  He faced the evil beast and stood his ground, not giving an inch.  That is what George Bush is doing.  Not giving an inch.  The most powerful man in the world and acting like it.  What would Hillary do?  The same thing as Bill.  Take a poll and see which "stance" would be politically beneficial for him or her at that time.

Yes, you are correct that the cold war was won through a lot of "luck" that could be described as an "implosion", but he was the coach when his team won the big one.  He gets the credit, and he deserves it.  We have not been attacked since 9/11 and someone has to get the credit.  Is it the average Joe on the street doing such a great job?  No.  Is it the cop on the beat that is preventing terrorism?  No.  It is the very people that a lot despise.  The secret stuff that everyone is so upset about, listening to phone calls, etc.  That is what has kept us safe thus far.  Talking won't do it.  Turning the other cheek won't do it.  Building a fortress and defending when they attack won't do it.  What will do it, is taking it to them, in their lairs, and crushing them.  Yep.  That will do it.  I don't care if it makes them madder at us.  Because: (I will repeat this one more time for those in Rio Linde) THEY HAVE GIVEN A VOW TO ALLAH TO KILL US ALL, OR DIE TRYING.  Period,  End of discussion.

Do right, we are definitely on the same page if not exactly the same paragraph.  I have said before that you cannot trust a fanatic of any stripe. You will not change their thinking, you cannot not reason with them, and you most certainly will never make a lasting peace with them.

My thinking?  There must be something in the water over there.  They are ALL nuts and have been for thousands of years.

A little help for the retarded:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/123295.html

You are pathetic.

"Dear Kenny,

You volunteered for the military, that was your choice, no need to rub it anyones face who did not. Most likely you came from a lower income community with others who where joining the military so it seemed like a no brainer - you did the same. You are not the first or the last to be sent off to fight the wars that the rich and the powerful they are too sanctified to participate in themselves. If you are you doing duty in Iraq, please explain to me how fighting for Bush / Chaney's oil rights is personally protecting my "freedom". Aren't you all suppose to be in Afghanastan / Pakistan looking for Bin Laden? Oh, that's right. Save the martar speach. WWI and II was the last time American soldiers actually went to war to protect our "freedoms".

Yours Truly,

GoldenElk"

No need for me to say anything.   Your own statements to "one of our own" serving our country, says volumes about you.  But you are right about one thing.  Pathetic is the appropriate word.