Bill of Sale - Page 2

Therese

I don't think I blasted you for breeding untitled dogs before.  If I did blast you it was for being uneducated and lacking the knowledge to breed untitled dogs.  I don't have a problem with people that know what they are doing, breeding two dogs that are not titled.  If Artur Kemmer wanted to take two young, untitled dogs and breed them, I would definitely not have a problem.  The problem I have, is when someone has very little knowledge, but does it anyway.  My point is, I wouldn't hire someone that has never built a house to build my home.  I have a bad feeling it will fall like a house of cards.

I can't remember everyone and every post.  I had forgotten your post on breeding.  I only wanted to ask about the other GSD because with another one, it would be easier to place Tino.  You say you are learning and want to continue to learn more.  Many people on here have given you the advice you requested.  I would have to say the majority of them have told you to get rid of Tino.  Yet, you will not listen.  It is hard to say, only by reading a post on a dog, but if this dog, Tino, has issues, doyou think it is wise to use him in your breeding program?

I don't want you to think that I am getting down on you.  I am only offering my opinion.  If you take it, fine.  If you don't, that is fine too. 

You have a lot to learn.  You want a dog that will "bark and intimidate if not actually physically defend me if needed".  You have no Idea whether either of your GSD will defend you. By the descriptions of both of your dogs, I would put money on your female defending you before Tino.  You have to understand that in order for a dog to defend another and take on a man, he must be a courageous and confident dog.  From the description you have given of Tino, I would say that if there was a serious threat, he would defend himself and flee.  I could be wrong and I usually am according to my wife, but you will never know unless the dog is tested.  If you are taking the dog to someone to evaluate, you may get your answer.  I have seen far too many dogs fail to "defend".  Too many people see bad temperment, bad nerves, and a lack of courage as being a "tough dog". 

If you want to learn, I would advise you find a club.  You can learn a lot on this board, but not everything.  Just because I read a book on art, does not mean that I will be able to go out and paint like Picasso.  You have to actually go out there and do it. 

As the old saying goes, a contract is only worth the paper it's written on. I'll add my 2 cents, it's only worth the integrity of the breeder who issues it. This goes back again to titliing, breed surveying, xraying, etc, all the extras most breeders do prior to even breeding a litter. I can't say that a breeder who does all of these things will never cheat a buyer, but I do think the odds of that happening are less than they would be if buying from one who doesn't do most of them. In this case a guarantee sends the message to the buyer that this breeder has done all he or she can do to insure they are getting a healthy puppy. Don't take this to mean I said that anyone who breeds from dogs that are not titled or breed surveyed are dishonest, I know better.  I myself would not buy a GSD from any breeder who did not issue a written bill of sale/contract.

If this litter is going to be eligible for AKC registration and the papers are not available when the puppies go to their new homes, then you must provide a written bill of sale listing some information such as  sire, dam, their AKC numbers and the date of birth of the litter. The required information is on the AKC website.  In this day and age there is really no good reason to not provide the AKC registration papers when the puppies are sold assuming you have applied for them in a timely manner. It can all be done on the net now, no more waiting for weeks, sometime months like we used to do. I think it's also a good idea to state why the papers are not available and when they will be and also indicate which are sold with limitied registration.  Also list the date of vaccination/s and dewormings and the brands given. The more you have in writing, the less chance of a misunderstanding in the future.

As far as what you need to address in you bill of sale/guarantee, that depends on the sale price IMO. If you are selling all for the same reasonable pet price and not thousands of dollars, I think it is appropriate to only guarantee the health of the pup for a specified period of time, say 14 days, and also require the pup is examined by a licensed vet within 3-5 working days of purchase. Guarantee that the dog will be able to function as a satisfactory pet as an adult - that covers really bad hip and elbows or a bite that is so severely misaligned that the dog has trouble eating as well as some other issues. This would exclude dogs that are not eligible for OFA ceritifcation or that grow up to have disqualifying faults.

Don, I appreciate your opinion. You have the knowledge and experience that I do not. When I bred those 2 I didnt know about all of the other things that I needed to know. I still dont. I was misguided and given bad advice if you will call it that,  I will not use either dog again in a breeding program because I will not be breeding unless and until I have the knowledge and respectable, OFA'd, Titled stock. After reading the board the last 2 months or so, I realise breeding aint what it is cracked up to be lol There is no way I am ready for that. Tino does go for evaluation Sunday, I do not know how extensive her knowledge is but we will see. Thing is, Wouldnt I just be passing a potentially problem dog on to someone else? He has been bounced around enough, he sure doesnt need more.

Blitzen, Thank you for that information, that is exactly what I needed. Both parents are AKC registered and I will apply for the litter papers the day they are born, no issue there.

I do have a question about limited registration. Since neither of my dogs are OFA certified nor are they titled, would it be a good or bad idea to have limited registration papers? I mean seriously,I would have say Xena xrayed and find out she is dysplastic and have a whole little of pups creating more displastic pups. I have no reason to suspect that, it was just an example.

Therese

If it were my litter, I'd sell all of them with a limited registration.