Breeding every heat. - Page 2

Possibly Sunsilver is referring  to the over population of the breed? While it may be physiologically better for the bitch to be bred, that's a LOT of puppies to find very good stable homes for, so they don't end up in a shelter or rescue.

Just a thought-

I too had always been under the impression to rest a bitch every other heat for many many years. But in the last 4-5 years from most all experienced, Professional and reputable Breeders that I am in contact with, their thoughts have changed on this matter. I now see no problem with breeding a younger bitch in peak condition, that is a natural breeder, good mother, an easy whelper, every heat during her younger years. BUT, I only believe this holds true when she has had a smaller to medium size litter that has not taken ANY toll on her. If the size of the litter, the stress of the litter, or is any stressful situations have developed at her home (moving, sold or transfered) etc. She should then be allowed to rest up and have a "leave". Experienced breeders that have developed a healthy feeding program, comfortable whelping areas, daily exercise and supplement programs can easily see if the bitch in question could easily handle a back to back breeding. I have one bitch that seems all around happier when she does have a litter. She loves them, spends every minute she can with them and I think they actually make her a much happier dog all the way around when she is bred back to back while she IS young and in her prime.

I've only bred back to back once.  If it is an extremely large litter, I won't even consider it.  If you're having 2-4 pup litters, I don't see why not.  My current litter is 13 puppies, no way I'd breed again so soon. BUT I do know my vet and others don't have a problem with it.

Here is an transcript of an interview with Dr. Hutchinson and it discusses the pros of breeding back to back due to progesterone and the uterus.

www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx

Yes, Sheesh, that was exactly my thoughts, especially after that link jettasmom posted earlier today. It is a cold, hard fact that purebreds DO wind up in shelters and rescue situations. If I were a breeder, my number one concern would be to prevent that from happening. Unfortunately, too many breeders are blinded by greed, or arrogantly assume 'my dogs are titled and purebred. I'm NOT part of the problem!'

Molly,  Excellent explanation.   My vet agrees with this also especially as a bitch starts to age.   We do NOT typically breed back to back,  However we did breed one of our females right back,  she is our older one, and the one we plan to keep several of her pups back for training, and yes Titleing.  This female will be spayed late next year and until that happens our vet agrees that if she is the one we wish to keep offspring from that we should try to so long as all goes well, continue to breed her twice a year,  She is a 4month cycle dog and would if allowed produce 3 litters a year,  I could never do that to her !!   But we will get 2 from her this year and hopefully 2 next year then spay her and from then on she will be forever a couch potato in our home.   Before anyone decides to BASH me for this,  it is on the advice of our Vet, and also from several breeders as well.  This has not been an easy thing for me to decide to do.  I have always felt no more than 3 litters in any 2 year period was plenty enough,  but with the help of aother vet who is a reproduction specialist,  He also has advised we do what we can to get as many pups as we can to keep from her in this year and next.

and yes I too have had breeders say to me,  breed her every heat,  that the animals know if it's not right,  if they are not in good physical condition or if the last litter was poor due to maternal stress,  They will let you know, by simply skipping a cycle, or not accepting a male, or NOT conceiving.   I like to take a little more Proactive and have a little more say so than "letting mother nature take it's course"  But I have seen this in other critters,  Cattle, Horses, Goats, Rabbit's,  You don't purposely give them a break like we do our dogs,  but now and then they will take the break if they need it.

Yes, vets will say it keeps the repro organs functioning if they are used every heat.  There is a difference between being breeding every heat being  "better for the female" in an ethical sense!  Most vets I have talked to say - breed every heat for 2 or 3 litters then spay - not breed every heat from 3 or 4 up to when the female is 8 or 9 years old.  BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!   You get 2 or 3 litters, keep your replacement females and spay the bitch so she has some quality of life for several years IMO.

I have heard some of these same arguments for years. Some vets also think that unbred bitches are at a higher risk for pyrometria (sp?) tho I've never seen a study done on that.  While I personally think that there is an ocassional time that it might be appropriate to breed back to back ( one time event - older bitch - in extremely good shape etc etc) I do not think it is a good idea on a regular basis. Pregnancy  takes a toll on the mother whether it is a dog or human.

Perhaps you should be asking these vets if they would like to have 5 or 10 kids in a row ( or their wife ) and what affect that would have on their bodies. In humans it raises the rate of both mother and child death.

Many years ago I worked as an immigration/customs officer. The port of entry I worked at had a flight that came in once a week from a small island wh/ while not a 3rd world country was not quite caught up to the 20th century either.  A flight holding 187 people represented 10 to 15 families who were emigrating ( Legally) to this country consisting for mom and dad and at least one set of in-laws and the rest were kids. Often there were 5 kids under 5 or 7 kids under 8 etc. Frequently kids born 10 or 11 months apart. We would be handed the passports and there would be one for the mom age 22-30 and one for the grandmother age 50 on. You would then look up at the two women and often could not tell who was the younger. Childbearing can take a great toll on the body.

Finally, I too am concerned about the mass production of puppies. This kennel has produced 10 litters in 11 months including 3 litters in one month. Makes me wonder if  the puppies can be getting the attention,development and contact they need to develop into what they truly should be. Can you raise that many puppies and have them clean and fed - probably w/ sufficient staff but those pups will not have the same development as a sole litter home raised who gets to explore the world of house and garden and who can be imprinted for scent dectection as young as 4 weeks of age and who meets other dogs and people of all ages and kinds. I truly do not understand who would buy from such a kennel. I also have to question the motive of the kennel - is it the betterment of the breed or is it money. I know how tough it is to find proper homes for GSDs especially working lines IF you you care about that and not money in dog out. I do not want a dog to end up in a shelter 18 months later because the placement wasn't right. Most responsible breeders I know will take back a puppy/dog if the placement doesn't work. I have to wonder how could this facility offer that given the volume of dogs they are producing?

VKFGSD I agree the dog is no different then a human When the bitch is rested in-between they have a chance to regain what the pups have taken away. With the proper supplement. The bitch can regain what was lost. It is like mothers who have 6 and more children without proper prenatal supplements  their joints bones and teeth become brittle osteoporosis set in. There are people on this forum that have back to back litters totaling 50 or more pups a year. Do you think they are doing this for the health of the bitch

Remember... not too long ago in the evolutionary sense... dogs came from wolves.  Alpha wolves breed every heat... but that is only once a year!  Maybe a bitches reproductive system is better, as in less bad things can happen to it and it stays in shape by breeding every cycle... but I can't imagine what it would put their body through to do 2-3 litters every year of their lives.