Puppy aggression - Page 19

where, other than the IPO championships, does a dog need flashy obedience and full calm (prey) grips.

Duke...why does it matter?

Where does a dog need any sort of obedience? Or why does a dog NEED to bite anything? Why do we do anything with our dogs? What is the need for any of that?

99% of dogs are pets. Some people enjoy doing a sport with their dogs. The sport has above and beyond "normal" expectations. Is that new? EVERY sport HUMANS do has this. There's a difference between shooting hoops in your back yard and playing in the NBA.

The attack on high level IPO training is comical at times. Most don't want to admit it, but it comes from one place and one place only...jealousy. Can't compete, easier to bash. Gets you some more groupies that also lack the skill/ability/dog to compete at that level.

I dont attack high level IPO, can enjoy looking at it, but like you say, 99 % of the dogs dont go there so people dont give a rats ass if they tell their dog to sit and he does it, but sits half an inch out of line, 99% dont give a rats ass if the dog looks away one sec while heeling and 99%dont like a dog that chews of their kids hands in order to get the ball,
Im working and breeding dogs for other goal than IPO, so also I do not look for the ideal sportdog, but prefer different balance of drives,

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dz__udJTq8

This is what mother nature is doing with idiot badass  gangstah pups

 

Black Mal- Duke- BW ;you are 3 of the most interesting contributors on this chat room. Please do not feed the trolls!

Duke definately puts his money where his mouth is!
I know diddly compared to several posters here, that is why I come here, to try to learn a little.
Some advice I have heeded, some NOT so much. Some of the things people say is almost comical, yet they will swear to it.
The problem with that is many buy into the crap (there really are lots of people that know nothing about dogs, lots of them).
Hell, I came here fighting about my blue dogs and ended up with some of the best dogs/pedigrees and now have police k9 trainers waiting on dogs from me.
See, you can teach an old dog new tricks!

So then I’ll add…I never said anything about a 4 month old not having defense. Of course they have it. IMO…it’s improper for a 4 month old to show any defense, and on top of that, to show defense towards people/objects just because it doesn’t know what the are. Nothing anyone can say to me will convince me that it’s proper or good for a 4 month old wild carnivore to show defense, I’m not sure what kind of world one has to live in to believe that it would be smart for a 4 month old to fight an older carnivore. In the video BM posted, the dog doing the corrected was 6 months old…if that was a full grown adult, and didn’t hold back on correcting the puppy (or if the puppy was actually trying to start a fight and not just barking), the puppy would’ve been dead before anyone could’ve said no...there is no debating that.

I also would love to see the clubs/helpers that can only work a dog in prey. More often than not what I see is helpers that don’t know how to work a dog in either drive, or are confused about what to call whatever drive they are trying to work a dog in. Working the wrong dog in prey will lead to an extremely weak looking dog…which no one wants in the first place. Not unlike the OP calling what his puppy is doing aggression/defense, many helpers are the same way. A dog barks “deep” = defense, a dog “yips” = prey, they don’t actually understand the difference in drive and what needs to be done from a helper’s per. Most try to work a dog in defense but don’t put enough pressure on the dog in front of them to take them there so they end up calling it prey because a sleeve or a toy is thrown about or waved. The helpers definitely try to work the dogs in defense…they just don’t all know how. IMO…working a dog in prey and getting it to react in a way that will score the points in IPO is much more difficult than doing it in defense to get the same reaction.

BW

can you post a vid with annotation showing a dog in prey vs defense and explicitly identifying the key differences.
And like a I said on internet forums, and trainers from both east and west coast and central ( all involved in LE at some level ) have said that many young dogs ( and yes as young as 4 months ) can show strong defense drive and because of the immaturity of the dog it looks like unsureness ( on the dogs path).; they say upon maturity and with a knowledgeable trainer ( vis a vis this type of dog ) these dogs show a strong fight to match the defense ( that had appeared at a young age ).

Puppies at that age are very impressionable. Heck, at one year of age, they are still very impressionable. Specifically males are not done maturing until they are about 4 years old. Some sooner, some later. That's when the personality is truly set.

Personally, I don't build drive, I don't want them in defense until a certain age, and then only limited and in small doses.

This is him btw. (and yah, this is exactly who you think it is, handling him ;) )
https://vimeo.com/176100252

This is also him, and believe me, this is by far more important than anything else.
https://vimeo.com/152766149

This is also him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEKsAWNRSO4

Screw overly civil and defensive dogs, they might be good for breeding but other than that, you won't really be able to enjoy a dog like that. THIS is what I personally want and prefer. I want to be able to do anything I want with my dog, and I want to do it well. German Shepherds have always been Jack of all Trades. That's what they are supposed to be and that's what I personally will uphold in my dogs! You can have it all in one dog without sacrificing anything.

BE Athos is a lovely, versatile, true GSD, and 'coming along nicely' in his training on all fronts if your videos are recent. A credit to you.