David Wilkerson vs Joel Osteen - Page 19

Dear Deana

I do not follow men. 

I follow the comforter,the spirit of truth. He dwelleth with me.
He shall teach me all things.

  
   gouda

Calvinist would rather put their trust in doctrine developed centuries after Jesus the apostles
and the early fathers,by a man who did not study with those closest to the source.
Biblical historians and scholars will tell you the closer one gets to the original source,the more
likely one is to get accurate doctrine from those who were there.
The reverse is true,the farther away you get from those who were there,the more likely that errors are developed in doctrine.
There is about 400 years jump between the original Apostles and their students,until Augustine revealed his doctrine.
Then you had another 1,100 years until men like Calvin came along to develope and enforce this doctrine.

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R.C. Sproul Jr.  God desired for man to fall into sin..
Did his Father teach him that?

    gouda

gouda you mention there is about 400 years of a jump between those teachings of the Apostles and Augustine (roughly).  And then another 1,100......  That brings up another point to go with your comment.  Recalling passages like Jude 3 which mention "the faith"  which was once for all handed down to the saints.  .......not other faiths, other doctrines, etc.  And even Galatians 1:6-10    "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! 10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ."

Ruger, simply stating I'm wrong about a passage doesn't really help your position (the Psalm passage). What I stated about the background of that Psalm, truly is......the background of the Psalm, the time he wrote it, etc. The background, the context, and those verses should be very clear to anyone who carefully observes them that it is not saying he was born inheriting sin; But more so that because of sin, he was born. 

ruger, As for this comment of yours....   Let me clarify, I do believe that Jesus did sympathize with our weakness, but sympathizing and having the ability to commit sin are two very different things,,I do not believe that Jesus was capable of sinning..I do believe that he was sympathetic to our weakness,, What did you mean by this comment, ".Many who teach Calvinistic ideas try numerous different ways to get around that.  But, at least you recognize He wasn't, and don't hold to those non biblical explanations."​

The first part of your comment just wouldn't make sense to me.  If He could not sin, that just kind of takes away from it all. I mean to be tempted in every way,  and to not sin "because He was not able to sin?".......That wouldn't really be a temptation. That would almost seem to discredit that. 
As for what I meant by that last part is that many who hold to the Calvinist views will claim things about Jesus not having sin because they claim "Mary herself was conceived in a miraculous way, which cut off the sin", or things similar to that. My point was they look to explanations that are not held in Scripture, and at least you are not doing that in that case.  Make sense?

You still haven't answered the Ezekiel 18 passage, I'm waiting....
 

Gouda,,You made a comment and you will not provide us with the names of all these teachers ,,,No surprise there,,

GSDguy,,Let us get one thing straight, I did not just simply state you were wrong ,I am familiar with the background of the Psalm and have come to my conclusion based on the context of the chapter and the rest of scripture..,lol,,stop playing games huh,,The verse is NOT teaching he was born because of sin, The scripture is clearly teaching he was born in sin..We will have to agree to disagree...

As far as the Ezekiel passages the scripture is simply teaching that each person is accountable to their own sin,,That does not in anyway nullify the clear teaching of original sin..It only builds on the idea that every human has a personal responsibility toward God for their actions not based on the actions of their natural parents or anyone else for that matter..That is why we will all give an account to God individually .

You did not answer my question about knowing any one who is sinless?..Since you believe that we are born sinless do you know of anyone who has attained this sinles**s status indefinitely??..

Also, It is of no consequence whether scripture makes sense to you or not,,Scripture does not need to meet your standard of rationale..As a matter of fact, lol, scripture rarely makes sense intellectually speaking..The fact remains, Christ was without sin and was incapable of sinning based on His nature ..Christ is God,,You need to build your theology on the basic principles of Bible doctrine..

As far as your comment about many Calvinists holding to the view that Christ was sinless due to Mary herself being conceived in a miraculous way, ..Please provide me with the names of these teachers ..I have never personally met or heard of a traditional Calvinist who did...

Maybe you could get together with Gouda and you could work on providing these names
together,,:)

 

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/raised-to-life/Articles/False.html
Dont like copying and pasting,but you aught to read this Deana.

      gouda

http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/theology1.html

   gouda

Deana are you afraid of scripture proof?

If God is not willing that any should perish,but that all
should come to repentance,THEN CALVINISM SIMPLY CANNOT BE TRUE.
There is no excuse for getting caught in the error of Calvinism,
none except ignorance of Gods word.    HOW DO YOU KNOW ITS NONSENCE DEANA
IF YOU HAVENT EVEN READ IT.
Gods word declares that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation
to everyone that believeth ROM.1:16 IS GOOD TIDINGS OF GREAT JOY,
not  just to certain  elect.,but to all people LUKE 2:10.
sADLY,THE INSISTENCE THAT ONLY A FEW SELECT GROUP HAVE BEE ELECTED TO SALVATION IS
not good tidings of great joy to all people.
How can this doctrine be true?

Well for a start our fore fathers did not teach predestination,some of them were tutered by the deciples.
I can see it coming Deana,your going to lay down certain stipulations,
to give you an excuse to run away like you always have.

  I STILL CONSIDER YOU A FRIEND IN CHRIST THOUGH.
   HAVE A NICE DAY.
    gouda