Let me be a little more direct to your Question Gustav. I don't think a one time awarding of a VA would make any difference. There still would not be any encouragement for conformation breeders to use him. To make as bold of a step as we are speaking of would have to be followed up with other working lines being given places surpassing their structure. A general loosening of standards structurally would be necessary to create an environment where the blending of lines would happen wide scale. I do not see the SV retreating on structure, they believe they are on the cutting edge of advancing the breed structurally.  

Holy shmoly!!! The standard says no extremes, but the SV is on the "cutting edge" !!! ? Well then I guess the word " extreme" needs to be redefined.

Joanaro, what extremes? I was trying to answer a question Gustav asked of me. I gave my theory on what an organization might be thinking. I wrote that the SV believes they are on the cutting edge, not that I believe they are. I don't understand what you are trying to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVKojginwj0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Markobytes, I appreciate your answer. The key to significantly improving working or temperament has to be genotype as opposed to phenotype. If you take a dog of essentially the same bloodlines or genetics and try to improve the general condition of working or temperament, you are still swimming upstream,IMO. The gene pool is the same! The particular dog you may use may be strong, but that dog carries the same genes as the litter mates or cousins that aren't so strong. Also, Javir has very good moderate structure, he is out of an exceptional litter that had at least 4 or 5 siblings with good structure and superb temperament. This is not G structure, and you are looking for long term improvement. After thirty five years of breeding the same narrow lines, a dog like Javir is going to damage structure that much with a VA placing? Would the judges be afraid that the form of Javir would bring down FUNCTION .......cause I've been told the correct form is needed for proper functioning( just learned that from some of previous posters ), so I'm really confused as to how he would damage structure in one generation, although we know the infusion of new genes would bring in vitality and other intangibles. I understand what you have said, but the logic escapes me.

 Gustav,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     I believe Javir has a V structure, no I don't believe he would damage structure. I just don't see how it would change the way the current breeders are doing business. Even with a VA rating, if they thought they would lose an edge as far as a future placing, I don't see them changing. I agree wholeheartedly with you as far as genetics go. The breeders of VA1 Pakros d'Ulemental may of had the same idea as you and have used Javir. I am also just speculating what others might be thinking.  I do not think most German showlines have bad temperaments, most have higher thresholds for defensive drives but that doesn't mean their temperaments are poor. I think the US has long been a dumping ground for Germany's problem dogs. But I believe things are getting a little better, I have been around some very good conformation dogs, and I own one personally. I am not going to dismiss a whole line of dogs or close my eyes to a good dog if I see it.

Just to press Gustav's point further, Javir is a very very important dog for widening up the genepool for both the Wl and Sl and a life time opportunity was wasted by the SV.

As you know we have 6 bloodlines which make the genepool of the GSD and as per the Czech the 1st blood line is extinct.

The basic bloodlines are:

1. Extinct
2 Hettel v Uckermark
3 Klodo v Boxberg
4 Utz vHouse Schutting
5 Rolf Osnabruckerland
6 Cir Vrtovske doliny

Javir goes back to non of the above dogs which means he's one of few who go back to the 1st bloodline which was thought to be extinct or which is extinct only in the Czech.

Here's Javir's Sir ancestors
Javir vom Talka Marda

Dago vom Schwarzen Pegasus

Marc vom Herkulesblick

Erko vom Eisfeld

Cliff vom Wolfendobel

 Ari vom Neffeltal

Kerry vom Stahlhammer

Rocco vom Stahlhammer

Gildo vom Busecker Schloß

Valet vom Busecker Schloß

Arno vom Haus Gersie

Edo vom Gehrdener Berg

Claudius vom Hain

Cerno von der Achensmühle

Hektor vom Schachengrund

Rex du Chatelot

Nero von der Heide

Alex von Hänni

Orto vom Simplon

Rolf Karolingen

Jockel Schwetzingen

Beowulf (Sonnenberg)

Hektor von Schwaben

 Horand von Grafrath (Hektor Linksrhein)

Kastor Rüde

Pollux

Roland

Markobytes, would you show us a picture of your dog with good conformation?  Preferrably not stacked but standing naturally.

Markobytes, Again thanks for your answer. I do agree that probably most of top SV people don't think their is a problem. I personally think that as Rik says many breeders have dogs with good pet temperament and feel this is exemplary. Though words like aloof, discerning, and discriminating, have always been part of the standard,(and thus appreciated), I find today that many feel that the tail wagging, effusive, dog that will come up to anyone with tail wagging and wanting to be petted is considered good temperament. (this I find in SL and WL alike). Similar to finding that the standard stresses a moderate dog that allows the dog to convert the form into a dog of many capabilities. I appreciate the time you have taken to educate me, Take care Cliff

Markobytes, nothing to you personally. The " SV on the cutting edge"...... That's a remarkable concept.