The GSD must SPLIT away from The Alsation!

by reason on 22 January 2009 - 08:01

I am sure if an appropriate split could be agreed upon the alsationists would be just as keen as us to split but again we must look to our governing organisations to promote this ie GSDL BAGSD and BC but it would take time and effort

by patrick on 22 January 2009 - 08:01

Uglydog & Bancroft, I dont think the people on this thread realy give a toss if a show dog is inferior at working to working lines, you can reverse that when you working dogs are in a show ring! I doesn't matter, you two obviously prefer to work you're dogs so are attracted to the type of animal that you feel is better for you're preference. Thats great!! I'm realy pleased you get what you want and need. Let's not get into, "My toys are better than your's" If you have shepherds, and work them, Great! well done! Remember, a show dog is something that conforms to the breed standard, possibly with a splash of glamour, There are millions of people who follow their dream in all breeds of dogs. This tread has nothing to do with our preferences of working/ showing the breed we love. Bill Owen.

by Videx on 22 January 2009 - 09:01

Having read the posts on this thread by Uglydog and Bancroft, which I consider wholly inappropriate for this thread, I will now make strenuous efforts for the introduction of a "CONFORMATION TEST" at every National & International Working Championship Trial. Including the BSP and the FCI World Championship Trials. For as much as working ability is very important in the German Shepherd Breed, CONFORMATION is also extremely important. Our breed is the GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG, it is NOT the Malinois or the Dutch Shepherd Dog or simply a "Working Dog" (without a breed name).

From 2008, for the WUSV Sieger Shows around the World, the passing of a Schutzdienst was mandatory in order to award a VA Grade in a Working Dog Class for Males & Females.

It is therefore time to introduce a mandatory "CONFORMATION TEST" as an integral part of all SV & WUSV National Trials (BSP) and all National & International FCI Trials. The scores awarded in the CONFORMATION TEST to be included in the overall total scores for the final result and placings and grading of the Trial.

This is long overdue, and I sincerely believe the introduction of a "CONFORMATION TEST" section, into Working Trials, at the highest level, will very quickly result in substantial improvements in the conformation of Working GSD towards the SV GSD Breed Standard. This in turn will substantially reduce, once and for all, the variance in type and conformation that we see across our German Shepherd Breed.

I call on every WUSV Club around the World to push and PUSH hard for this proposal to become mandatory, ensuring it is placed on the AGENDA of this years WUSV meeting. I also call on the SV to support this proposal, and the FCI member Kennel Clubs around the World to support the introduction of this proposal. YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE!

by pod on 22 January 2009 - 09:01

David, to make this test fair you would have to use assessors who were idependent of both the working and GSD show factions. As these are not show dogs, they shouldn't be assessed as show dogs and a judge who has an allegiance to the GSD showring would be likely to compare them to exaggerated type we now see in the ring, rather than the actual standard.

by missbeeb on 22 January 2009 - 10:01

Uglydog does not live in the UK and does not have a Shepherd, that kind of renders his opinion on this thread... irrelevant.

Bancroft has had Shepherds for all of 10 years,

(if that) yet says he has worked both show and working lines! He has also mentioned on another thread about how he always replaces his one dog when he retires one! (must be a huge amount of those in a 10 year period)

I asked Bancroft what show lines he had worked, he told me that he would not discuss his dogs pedigree with me, but anyone else (American) could PM him for details

So... what has this person achieved with his working and showline dogs, that he should feel able to slate good and knowledgable breeders of show and working lines... many of whom have had success in both spheres? Not too much, I suspect!

So... his opinion is also, irrelevant and we may leave him to continue with his day dreams!

by Videx on 22 January 2009 - 10:01

I don't think you have to look too far from Cheshire to find Bancroft.

by Sue B on 22 January 2009 - 10:01

I said it once but as the question is still being asked I will say it again, "If there was to be a split it is THE REGISTERED BREEDER who would determine what breed their stock would go under - German Shepherd or Alsatian" it is that simple.

ALL IMPORTS (including DDR working line dogs) would be known as GERMAN SHEPHERDS as this is the name for the Breed in every other country across the globe. Unlike some I do not differentiate between German Shepherds and Working Line dogs they are the same breed, but what the UK Working Line (if thats what they want to call themselves) want their stock to be known as is also up to them. I suspect they will choose German Shepherd since the Working Bundesieger is run under the SV umberella and judged by SV approved judges.

As for getting the KC to take health into consideration, the West Yorkshire GSD Club proposals put forward at the last Breed Council Meeting to introduce more proficient Character Tests into the BC Survey and then to lobby the KC to register progeny from sires / dams that have passed a BC Survey (or Korung for imports) was PASSED at the November 08 meeting. So we need to be moving forward with this , NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO BE DRAGGING OUR FEET, THE TIME HAS NEVER BEEN BETTER, THE TIME IS RIGHT NOW, SIEZE THE MOMENT BEFORE WE LOOSE IT FOREVER IN THAT BLACK HOLE OF KC CREEPY CRAWLING.

Regards
Sue B

by Sue B on 22 January 2009 - 10:01

I said it once but as the question is still being asked I will say it again, "If there was to be a split it is THE REGISTERED BREEDER who would determine what breed their stock would go under - German Shepherd or Alsatian" it is that simple.

ALL IMPORTS (including DDR working line dogs) would be known as GERMAN SHEPHERDS as this is the name for the Breed in every other country across the globe. Unlike some I do not differentiate between German Shepherds and Working Line dogs they are the same breed, but what the UK Working Line (if thats what they want to call themselves) want their stock to be known as is also up to them. I suspect they will choose German Shepherd since the Working Bundesieger is run under the SV umberella and judged by SV approved judges.

As for getting the KC to take health into consideration, the West Yorkshire GSD Club proposals put forward at the last Breed Council Meeting to introduce more proficient Character Tests into the BC Survey and then to lobby the KC to register progeny from sires / dams that have passed a BC Survey (or Korung for imports) was PASSED at the November 08 meeting. So we need to be moving forward with this , NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO BE DRAGGING OUR FEET, THE TIME HAS NEVER BEEN BETTER, THE TIME IS RIGHT NOW, SIEZE THE MOMENT BEFORE WE LOOSE IT FOREVER IN THAT BLACK HOLE OF KC CREEPY CRAWLING.

Regards
Sue B

by Videx on 23 January 2009 - 18:01

The GERMAN SV is quite rightly the custodian of our breed "THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG"

At the annual German Sieger Show, the largest single breed SHOW in the World, the SV National Breed Warden, determines the interpretation of OUR BREEDS STANDARD in practical and VISUAL terms, FOR THE WORLD TO SEE.

Anyone else's opinion that DIFFERS from that interpretation is WRONG.

by pod on 23 January 2009 - 18:01

David, do you blindly follow whatever the SV says, without question?

Can you not see that there is something drastically wrong with their interpretation of -

Every tendency toward overangulation of the rear quarters diminishes soundness and endurance. The correct proportions of height to length and corresponding length of the leg bones results in a ground-eating gait that is low to the ground and imparts an impression of effortless progression. With his head thrust forward and a slightly raised tail, a balanced and even trotter will have a topline that falls in moderate curves from the tip of the ears over the neck and level back through the tip of the tail.

The back, including the loins, is straight and strongly developed yet not too long between the withers and the croup.

The croup is long and slightly angled (approximately 23 degrees). The ileum and the sacrum are the foundation bones of the croup. Short, steep or flat croups are undesirable.

The GSD must SPLIT away from The Alsation! - Page 18

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