Shiloh Shepherds...Warlock/King Dobermans - Page 17

i don't think the issue is if shiloh owner wish to do sch or not but rather it's about if the breed as a whole is able to do protection work as proven by receiving a sch title - the standard the original question had set.

regardless of the training methods used many breeds are not able to achieve a sch titles; they may deter intruders but this is not true protection work from the standpoint of sch.  if you look at the shiloh site shilohs have not received any sch. titles.  since sch is a big gsd sport, and rightly or wrongly, is the standard most gsd breeders etc recognize as the way to measure a dogs skills in protection & tracking. this fact (according to issdc site) would make it clear that shilohs do in fact diverge in this way from their gsd predecessors and cousins.  i think this is the point that gsd folks are getting at. 

imo it's totally fine that shilohs are different from gsds and do not perform the same tasks in the same way.  i also think it's totally fine to discuss just how these 2 breeds differ from one another. if you go to the shiloh site  http://www.shilohs.issdc.com/ISSDC/ISSDCDogsAtWork.htm you can find a list of the various titles shilohs hold.  if you look over these lists one can see shilohs excel in obedience, and also hold a number of titles in herding & therapy work.  a few hold sars titles but none are titled in protection work i.e.sch.  does this make the breed less than gsd? - i would say not unless you are looking for a dog you want to train as a protection dog. 

shilohs are what they are and gsds are what they are and there is a clear distinction between the 2 breeds. which breed you end up with is simply personal preference and one would hope that shiloh owners prefer shilohs and gsd owners prefer gsds.   i honestly see no point in trying to convince each other our personally preferred breed is the better breed. - jmo

Thanks for your objective way to look at it. Finally somebody who understands where I'm coming from. I even agree, that I would not want to title my Shiloh in Schutzhund, because most of them simply lack the drive required for that kind of work. ;)

However - they definitely can NOT deny their GSD ancestors and I think that's an observation we all can agree on, can't we ?

I do love the GSD working lines and I'm heartbroken about the conformation lines you see paddle around the ring over here. :( It's not a pretty sight, that's a given. Unfortunately, the German showlines seem to strive towards the "frog-look" as well. That's so sad. Another wonderful German breed that's going down the drain over here. (Just look at what was done to some other German breeds like the dachshund, the Great Dane or the Dobermann )

I don't want to be a troll or anything, I just want to state my opinion why I don't want to own a German Shepherd anymore and why the Shiloh Shepherd is a wonderful alternative for those who want a square dog that can move without rubbing their hocks raw on the ground. I love the looks of the GSD (old style mind you !) and the Shiloh comes the closest to the Altdeutsche Schaeferhund for me.

I don't want to own a German Shepherd anymore and why the Shiloh Shepherd is a wonderful alternative for those who want a square dog that can move without rubbing their hocks raw on the ground.

Ok, now you're really ticking me off.   According to you, if you want a dog whose hocks don't get rubbed "raw on the ground" you can't possibly get a German Shepherd Dog.  You, my dear, are full of ****.  What utter garbage you say.

Yes, there are faulty GSD, and yes, there are craptacular Shilohs, and yes, to each his own.  But there are Plenty of German Shepherds "that can move without rubbing their hocks raw on the ground," so DON'T say there-are-no-good-GSD-so-I-must-get-a-Shiloh.  I'd put my two GSD up against any Shiloh anywhere anytime in any endeavor, whether it be Schutzhund or herding or hiking companion or best buddy or GOOD, SOUND, QUALITY MOVEMENT.  They are pure GSD and they can do it all.

'Why the Shiloh Shepherd is a wonderful alternative for those who want a square dog that can move without rubbing their hocks raw on the ground.'

What Nonsense...

Either a dog can work or it cant.    Excellent Working Lines of GSDs exist if one knows where to look.  Your argument & Point has NO legs.

Sorry, I wouldnt feed a Shiloh. Which cant work

Not that I would buy one...but if Tina wants to GIVE me a Bi-Color Male (short hair) that has the drive to work...

I would go and title it to SCHh or PSA...just to do it and come back here and let you all know , see video and pictures of the working abiltiy, or non-working ability.

Just sayin.

Stop telling these fine people working line GSDs are better than Shilohs.  Shilohs are the BEST.  Everyone wants a Shiloh.  We are all just really jealous of you lucky Shiloh owners.

Now, lets all of us working line folk  back slowly out of the room.  I mean really, is there a single one of them that you feel would be able and qualified to handle a real GSD?  The worst thing would be to relegate one of our fine dogs to one of their households.  I wouldn't want to see a pup from the worst breeder go to them.

Maybe then,  if we just let them get in the last word of ridiculous bullshit  they will then go on their merry way and  finally this retarded thread will die.  After all, this is so much a waste of our time.

Well why do some of you keep coming back to argue?you keep saying this is the last time and then your right back at it with the Shiloh people.Some of you are down right rude and mean spirited.I do not think the Shiloh people are tyring to convert any of the gsd people in to trading your German shepherds for a Shiloh.They have the right to their opinion with out having there heads served on a platter .Lets get a grip and stop the name calling.I know all of you can do better then this.

`.They have the right to their opinion

Of course they do.  But yes, this is repetitive but you obviously aren't getting it:  THIS is why people keep coming back: the POINT is that the Shiloh people on here are not confining themselves to "I simply prefer this dog."  The Shiloh people on here keep bashing German Shepherds:

"pitiful, overangulated spooks"

"ugly stupid  looking ROACH SWAY BACKS."

"I had 2 small boys & I wanted to make sure that the dogs I was working with would be 100% CHILD SAFE!!)"

"I don't want to deal with a working line GSD and I did not want to deal with one of those crippled conformation dog"

"rubbing their hocks raw on the ground"

"disease ridden spectacles"

These are only SOME of the comments on this one thread from Shiloh people.  GSD people know there are faults; you only have to be active in either showing or Schutzhund or both, or be on this msg. board briefly and you'll see that we know this, and guess what? People are trying to fix it.  There are SOME problems, yes.  Admitted.  As has every breed their problems.  EVERY breed, including Shilohs.  But a lot of the Shiloh people on here don't state it as problems in a breed - they repeatedly and blanketly state that all GSD are like this.  They ignore all the thousands of beautiful, sound, GSD.

There were two photos of GSD posted on here - they were gorgeous, but no, to listen to the Shilohians, these dogs don't exist. Come here and post such nonsense and no, we're not going to let such falsehoods slide.

Yes, though - more civility in discussions on BOTH sides would be a good thing.  You're right about that.