The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 16

Gustav - I have now seen the breeding of the female that you mention and the inbreed in her bloodline is typical of dogs in her day.  She was born in 1975.

I would not mate a female where the inbreed is 2- 2 , or, in todays climate unless there exceptional reasons, an inbreed any closer than 4,5, -  0,0 or 5,0 - 5,0.   For myself, I would be looking to open up the genetic diversity.

Mackenzie

 

Mac i have never bred a gsd admitedly but on logical grounds you do not seem to have a basic grasp on what genetic diversity means.

when i ask you you only response is, you tell me + an insult.

can you please explain how anything you have suggested will increase genetic diversity and why genetic diversity is good or bad, you should have made this clear in post # 1.

Vk4gsd - a few posts ago I invited you to comment on what you would do in your small way.  As usual you refused to answer.  I have no intention of acknowledging your remarks until you come up with an answer.

Mackenzie

oh i started typing a generic answer that anyone would have typed re testing, culling, etc.

i would only add i would rely a lot more on DNA testing for genetic dieases and compiling such a database of genetic information publically available on  all dogs and their histories.

we have such databases for farm animals (and crops), both for food animals and stud animals, many people buy stud animals straight from these numbers, not something i would do but many do.

 

so tell me how you would increase gentic diversity of the gsd and why that is good or bad.

 

 

Do not focus on the 2-2 , it could be 3-3 or 3-4, but I would start with a female that is linebred on traits that I want to maintain as foundation in my breeding program. Then as I move on with my program, I have a core foundation that I will not deviate much from even though I would diversify genetics the phenotype would be within my core values.

Vk4gsd - sorry mate but you need to come up with something better. Why do you not start from the same position that I started from e.g. Buying a female

Mackenzie

becuase there is much agreement and little disagreement to how one might generally go about making things better ie, proven stock, testing culling, yada yada.

 

it is kind of redundant to type it all out, i concede i would agree with yr vision on that.

my question to you, which you seem to be evading, is how does any of that increase genetic diversity.

I would do the following:

Infuse working line blood into the showlines to increase working ability and genetic diversity. The gene pool for the showlines has become far too narrow.

Avoid breeding for extremes either in conformation (showlines) or temperament (working lines).

Avoid breeding to the 'flavour of the month' (the most recent VA dogs), and try to 'resurrect' old lines that have mostly been abandoned during the Martin brothers era, lines that are know for working ability such as Mutz, Lasso di Val Sol, Cello von der Romerau, etc.

Gustav, can we please see the pedigree of the female you referred to earlier?

I would breed two dogs that have the best traits conforming to the breed standard. I would not ever breed a dog, male or female, that had to have major improvements, instead I would start with quality, no extremes which need tempering, either in character or structure. That's not to say I would not use a dog with extreme in temperament to build on what is all ready there in the other dog. I would line breed tightly on very good traits which are going away in the breed, such as fight drive and territoriality, athleticism. Strong nerves a must, above all else in temperament.
Health testing a given.

"I would do the following: Infuse working line blood into the showlines to increase working ability and genetic diversit.

 

that strategy has been claimed many times...by breeders of show dogs, a couple of things;

 

1. that strategy is more likely to DECREASE the working ability of the breed as a whole, ie not many hard core WL breeders that actually work their dogs out cross to high show lines to improve the working bilities of their dogs (yes there are rare exceptions) do the math.

2.   the anecdotal evidence is that the SL/WL cross more often than not seems to favor a high prey nerve bag of a dog (just anecdotal).

3. how does merging show and work increase diversity of the breed as a whole?

 

simple non-solutions to a complex problems.

 

jmo.