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by jaymesie51 on 14 December 2010 - 22:12
Hi Mo, thats a bit like saying i wont go out today because i might get hit by a bus, nearly every one i know has lost puppies at some point it does not mean they were going to be dwarfs,they could have drowned had weak hearts or any number of things, so ok not every one is going to use this test and i would hazard a guess it is because it is a visable disease, so if all you are going to use is tested dogs/bitches then your gene pull will be very small,i do not think for one minute that german dogs will be tested for it, so you cant use any VA dogs etc,not much point in testing your bitches just to put them to untested dogs.
I am all for the testing of diseases that you cant see and think it would be money well spent to find dna markers for these diseases, i just dont see PD testing being something that the majority of breeders will use jmho.
jim h
I am all for the testing of diseases that you cant see and think it would be money well spent to find dna markers for these diseases, i just dont see PD testing being something that the majority of breeders will use jmho.
jim h
by Penny on 14 December 2010 - 23:12
Hi Jim,
You may well have a point , but I dont want to chance things just because its visible, if I can counteract it.
Yes, I can use continental dogs if I know my female is clear even though they wont be tested.. If she isnt, then I start to weigh up the pro-`s and cons of what the loss will be if I dont and whether the dog will be tested too - and I can almost be sure he wont in Germany, but that doesnt make it right.
What you are saying is sensible Jim, and what I am also saying is sensible, so its got to be down to the individual at this point to make their own mind up, if we all keep giving our point of view and making up our minds which way we are going to go, then we are making headway, whether we get it done or not providing its for the right reasons, which is why I wanted Davids full views as above...and those that want to go that way will, and the others - hopefully for the right reasons - wont. There will be some people who will come on board at a later date, but if we make no headway at all, then we are perhaps staring in the face a chance to start to eradicate something that none of us would choose to see happen in our litters. My main qwuestion I suppose to the ones that think we shouldnt, is what harm can it do to know? Mo.
You may well have a point , but I dont want to chance things just because its visible, if I can counteract it.
Yes, I can use continental dogs if I know my female is clear even though they wont be tested.. If she isnt, then I start to weigh up the pro-`s and cons of what the loss will be if I dont and whether the dog will be tested too - and I can almost be sure he wont in Germany, but that doesnt make it right.
What you are saying is sensible Jim, and what I am also saying is sensible, so its got to be down to the individual at this point to make their own mind up, if we all keep giving our point of view and making up our minds which way we are going to go, then we are making headway, whether we get it done or not providing its for the right reasons, which is why I wanted Davids full views as above...and those that want to go that way will, and the others - hopefully for the right reasons - wont. There will be some people who will come on board at a later date, but if we make no headway at all, then we are perhaps staring in the face a chance to start to eradicate something that none of us would choose to see happen in our litters. My main qwuestion I suppose to the ones that think we shouldnt, is what harm can it do to know? Mo.
by jaymesie51 on 14 December 2010 - 23:12
Hi Mo very true it will be down to the individual to decide whether to use this test or not
jim h
jim h
by Videx on 15 December 2010 - 00:12
Mo: I will wait for you to actually DO what you are stating you WILL do, in your previous posts. You chose to "open" personal dialogue.
PD dna TEST ALL of your dogs. By the way I JRD dna test ALL of mine!
You see Mo, saying you will do something and then actually doing it, is the real measure.
Many write posts on here about this should be done and that should be done, when they are anonymous and have no intention or checks on whether they actually have done it, or indeed if they even need to do it, when they do not breed and for all we know may not even own a dog. They know who I am referring to! Others can put forward their charming agreement and charming intentions and then think they do not have to fulfill their hollow intentions, and it will all be water under the bridge in a few months or a year or so. I am wise to numerous human nuances for "window dressing" - for example Andrew Winfrow made a habit of complimenting numerous GSD the year before every GSD CH. Show he was Judging, and dozens and dozens of exhibitors fell for it, time and again and again, obviously and pathetically thinking "maybe he really likes my dog this time". I am very aware of such strategies and very many other strategies that people use.
PD dna TEST ALL of your dogs. By the way I JRD dna test ALL of mine!
You see Mo, saying you will do something and then actually doing it, is the real measure.
Many write posts on here about this should be done and that should be done, when they are anonymous and have no intention or checks on whether they actually have done it, or indeed if they even need to do it, when they do not breed and for all we know may not even own a dog. They know who I am referring to! Others can put forward their charming agreement and charming intentions and then think they do not have to fulfill their hollow intentions, and it will all be water under the bridge in a few months or a year or so. I am wise to numerous human nuances for "window dressing" - for example Andrew Winfrow made a habit of complimenting numerous GSD the year before every GSD CH. Show he was Judging, and dozens and dozens of exhibitors fell for it, time and again and again, obviously and pathetically thinking "maybe he really likes my dog this time". I am very aware of such strategies and very many other strategies that people use.
by Shepherdguy on 15 December 2010 - 01:12
Lest we forget Pituitary Dwarfism is a problem within the breed and if I’ve struck a nerve as it would seem with some then I am not sorry, this test is there for the health of the breed. Jaquenetta is an excellent site for us all to use I and others appreciate it greatly.
This site page is there to help and guide not to persecute, why we would want to persecute if we all have the breed at heart.
Miss Beeb I thank you for regarding me as part of Abby Normal’s ra ra team this person does write an excellent and formative post but you are so far off the mark especially when I agree all health testing be mandatory!!
I do support your choice to have your dog tested but a big shame you decline to share the results.
Videx Same old same old struggle to brow beat people to believing that you and only you are right if they don’t cow tow to your way of thinking then you have to resort to insults and large text, call me stupid call me what you like it doesn’t wash with me I have my view to which I’m fully entitled and that is PD is a problem within the breed and the test is here as a way to eradicate it.
Bazza Thank you for what you said in your post to Kesyra ’I would not have liked to be in your position with your puppies’. That one sentence says a thousand words it’s good to see you understand the problem we have!
Penny Your post at 21.12 on 14th December was excellent
This site page is there to help and guide not to persecute, why we would want to persecute if we all have the breed at heart.
Miss Beeb I thank you for regarding me as part of Abby Normal’s ra ra team this person does write an excellent and formative post but you are so far off the mark especially when I agree all health testing be mandatory!!
I do support your choice to have your dog tested but a big shame you decline to share the results.
Videx Same old same old struggle to brow beat people to believing that you and only you are right if they don’t cow tow to your way of thinking then you have to resort to insults and large text, call me stupid call me what you like it doesn’t wash with me I have my view to which I’m fully entitled and that is PD is a problem within the breed and the test is here as a way to eradicate it.
Bazza Thank you for what you said in your post to Kesyra ’I would not have liked to be in your position with your puppies’. That one sentence says a thousand words it’s good to see you understand the problem we have!
Penny Your post at 21.12 on 14th December was excellent
by bazza on 15 December 2010 - 07:12
Shepherdguy, Don't believe I said PD was a problem in the breed? I did however say I would not like to have been in the posistion of having to PTS puppies, for any reason.
by noddi on 15 December 2010 - 10:12
morning Bazza......So why put others in the position of having to put a dwarf puppy to sleep then.Newbies to the breed may buy a pup to show from a breeder who doesnt test their own stock for PD and use an untested mate who may be clear.the pup bought is a carrier.Further down the line this person decides to mate their female to a male(also untested and a carrier).low and behold up pops a dwarf.newbie is devasted,contacts the breeder who sold them their female for advise......answer from breeder......PTS AND KEEP YA MOUTH SHUT.I had something similiar said to me many years ago(1989)re a puppy that was very undershot from my 1st.......GET RID AND KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.To be honest there was another animal in the same litter with a slightly undershot mouth.i,ve never had an UNDERSHOT MOUTH ,since that litter.the only reason i can see for being told that was ,because they didnt want this known about the stud dog.Jim H.i applaud yu on YOUR SENSIBLE debate with Mo.yu put your own point of view forward and respected Mo,s and so agreed to disagree with no nastiness.i suppose as usual it will be the middle of the roaders/breeders who DONT SHOW IN GERMANY and some responsible pet(to some in the breed BYB)who will test their breeding stock.David give Mo time to test wotever animals she wishes to test,it takes time.she has only decided on this course of action,which believe me will be my course of action if i decide to have another gsd.Correct me if i,m wrong but yu werent very happy with the gsd ppl.in regards to the lack of response to JRD TESTING.i,m not trying to belittle or downgrade JRD TESTING.Carole S.
by Abby Normal on 15 December 2010 - 10:12
Shepherdguy
Just think of MissBeeb as MissInformation. I have always 100% supported mandatory health testing.
Bazza, what a horrible position for Kesyra to be in. Isn't it gut wrenching looking at gorgeous little pups, who as Mo rightly pointed out, didn't ask to be born, only to have to be destroyed within a few weeks of life.
But here's the whole point, and the only point which is very simple - using the new test no-one ever need be in that situation ever again. So you would have to ask as many others have with no real answer - why wouldn't you test?
Where are the breed council in all of this? Is anyone steering the health of the GSD any more?
Just think of MissBeeb as MissInformation. I have always 100% supported mandatory health testing.
Bazza, what a horrible position for Kesyra to be in. Isn't it gut wrenching looking at gorgeous little pups, who as Mo rightly pointed out, didn't ask to be born, only to have to be destroyed within a few weeks of life.
But here's the whole point, and the only point which is very simple - using the new test no-one ever need be in that situation ever again. So you would have to ask as many others have with no real answer - why wouldn't you test?
Where are the breed council in all of this? Is anyone steering the health of the GSD any more?
by missbeeb on 15 December 2010 - 11:12
1. Most good breeders sell their pups with endorsed registrations.
2. Since the rest of Europe (World?) is not testing as Abnor would wish , even with a bitch tested "clear", mating with an overseas dog (untested)... a clear bitch may still produce carriers!
3. Shepherdguy, you've received your latest instructions, be sure to follow them if you want to remain on the team! Keep your wits about you and read previous threads!
4. What was wrong with bumping (just bumping) this thread on a regular basis, to ensure everyone had seen the info about the PD page? That's what most decent people would have done... because they'd have wanted all to be aware. There would have been no nastiness. What was wrong with people looking at this thread, which they clearly were, without making a comment? I'll tell you... it wasn't what Abnor was after, it never is!
by Videx on 15 December 2010 - 11:12
Carole: and others: read this from the Kesyra post above. READ, ABSORB & RETAIN!
"When I made comment that it would be very upsetting to put the puppies to sleep, his (geneticist) reply was that if I couldn't have a puppy with a severe defect put to sleep, then I shouldn't be breeding. Harsh words when I was relatively new to breeding, but ones I have always remembered."
I am certainly NOT disappointed in the GSD ppl response to the JRD dna test, it is exactly what I expected, and exactly what had already happened in other breeds more seriously affected. A number of GSD breeders have and are JRD testing their dogs, discreetly, and they are finding carriers and making sensible breeding decisions. I fully agree with their approach and their reasons for discretion and privacy. I frequently am informed and give advice when requested, in the strictest of confidence. I fully respect a large number of GSD breeders who genuinely have our breeds present and future interest uppermost in what they say & what they actually do.
I have absolutely NO regard for those on this board who are disingenuous about health screening, and who clearly have ulterior motives centered around personal nasty agendas. Most of them are anonymous and they are certainly not worth a dog turd.
"When I made comment that it would be very upsetting to put the puppies to sleep, his (geneticist) reply was that if I couldn't have a puppy with a severe defect put to sleep, then I shouldn't be breeding. Harsh words when I was relatively new to breeding, but ones I have always remembered."
I am certainly NOT disappointed in the GSD ppl response to the JRD dna test, it is exactly what I expected, and exactly what had already happened in other breeds more seriously affected. A number of GSD breeders have and are JRD testing their dogs, discreetly, and they are finding carriers and making sensible breeding decisions. I fully agree with their approach and their reasons for discretion and privacy. I frequently am informed and give advice when requested, in the strictest of confidence. I fully respect a large number of GSD breeders who genuinely have our breeds present and future interest uppermost in what they say & what they actually do.
I have absolutely NO regard for those on this board who are disingenuous about health screening, and who clearly have ulterior motives centered around personal nasty agendas. Most of them are anonymous and they are certainly not worth a dog turd.
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