German Shepherd Bloodlines - Page 15

From someone who has never been a breeder,

but observationally has noted over the years that

sometimes  (NOT always)  individual dogs appear

to carry or pass on certain traits reported to be 'due'

to their carrying a dog - or bitch - known for that

same trait, even decades behind them in lineage,

I have always said what we say about puppies:

that it is a 'crap shoot'.

Genes are there; genes get passed down;  the

combination in which they are passed is the

genetic sugar-shaker usually described when

discussing breeding dogs as "A mixture of Art

and Science".  I do not forget that for many

years before we really knew anything about

genetics, humans had practised selective breeding

of livestock.  There must have been some point

to doing so.

You can always hope;  sometimes you get lucky

and achieve what you hope for.  Not sure it is

precisely measurable.

 

Not sure either quite why the pride taken in using

modern cloning methods is as strong as the pride

of those using 'bloodline' methods - seems to me

from doubts & hopes I have heard expressed by

those using the Scientific method, from cattle breeders

to Zoo conservationists, that it can be just as chancy

in the end.

 

Duh yes we all believe genes are inherited and breeding within lines increases the frequency of traits occurring.... everyone gets that.

The remainder is just marketing.

Again, hund, no one is denying the selection for traits. Or that traits are passed on in a breed...that's what constitutes a breed.
As vk said, the rest, ie. 'in line ' breeding on males only ( note I said 'in line' = the marketing lingo) and that a 'specific' dog which lived over a hundred years ago within a pedigree can be 'brought back'. Etc.

Tell me again, a line 4 female is bred to a line 3 male the pup is line 3. If that pup is bred to line 5 male the new pup is line 5 and if it is bred back.....wait the pup 10 gen on no matter how it's been bred is always whatever to original sire is.... Wait, ah this is BS.

@vk...speaking of science and cloning...here's my ozzy shep out of the line 2 x extra line 5 x extinct rare marsupial czech dire dog.

Hund…it’s not that I don’t believe in “lines” of dogs. It’s the notion that you need to know 25 generations back in order to properly breed that I can’t wrap my head around. Way too many dogs, way too many unknowns. No amount of reading and verbal history will change the fact that there is no way you can know exactly what the majority of those dogs brought to the table. Like I stated earlier, I’ve watched videos of the dogs that are being linebred today, and the verbal information you get about the dogs, rarely matches what you see on video. Proper training, high enough placements, a few good studs in the pedigree, and it’s very easy to campaign a dog and make it something more than it is.

When making breeding decisions, I have to trust that the dogs bred 5+ generations back in my dog’s pedigree and the potential stud’s pedigree were done right and with a similar goal as mine. Most people usually only know the breeding dogs, some of us are lucky enough to know the parents behind the breeding dogs. Further than that? You’re unlikely to know all 8 dogs back there. Even those that have long running breeding programs can’t possibly have owned the top and bottom of their current generation, 3 generations back, unless they’re constantly doing tighter than 3-3 linebreedings.

Do I breed for certain characteristics that definitely fall within one of the 5 bloodlines Prager mentioned earlier? Absolutely. Do I care which dog they go back to? Not in the least bit. I can’t. I can worry about what I control, and what I can control is what I can see…what I can lay my hands on. Verbal history and books are romanticized and highly biased. They’re also based on other people’s experience and understanding of working ability and drive levels. Who knows if the founder of our breed would approve of some of today’s highest level working dogs? Who knows how today’s top dogs would compare to the dog’s of the 1900’s? Why do today’s dogs get flack? Look at the ages of the people complaining…see what those people have done in the breed over the last decade or two? That will give you the answer. As always…most can’t evolve and “their day” was always better…because they could actually compete back in their day.

Wow, angry people party of 2 your table is ready. Why dump your emotional garbage for everyone to see. Are you capable of adult discussion? I don't mind heated but try and squeeze in some intelligent argument occasionally.

Good parents put children in timeouts for less. There no point to discussion when just being a nasty type person is your ultimate goal.

@ BW, excellent post.

Gigante, why so emotional?

Can I ask where you see emotion in any of that?

Joanro Why are you two so angry? I agree a better post then both of yours only the last sentence was knife attack. BW I was not reffering to your post. I guess some previous history is poisioning the disscussion.