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by Felloffher on 21 March 2013 - 15:03
God sounds like a bunch of power hungry men.
by Hundmutter on 21 March 2013 - 15:03
And people wonder "WHY ?" we atheists have no time for religion.
by Ruger1 on 21 March 2013 - 15:03
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxZKJSNVgqM
I think that this video is extremely clear cut with regard to the dilemma that many people struggle with regarding God's love or lack of...
It is such a contradiction when we hear people preach that God loves everyone only to read in the scripture about hell and punishment etc,,.No wonder why people are confused. They are told that God loves them and the next minute they are being told this same loving God is throwing them in hell...
The reason that most unbelievers feel confused about this subject is because we have folk preaching that God loves the whole world,,blah,,blah,,blah,,It is simply not true..
GSD mod asks a very good question that bears answering..The answer is not pleasant or well recived..To be perfectly honest, I struggle with the answer myself..I am espeacially sensitive to the issue of violence towards children and animals, but I keep going back to the fact that God's thoughts, ways, and intentions,are beyond and greater then what I am able to understand. I do however trust Him and that is what it must come down to..We either except that God is Holy and Just in all He does regarless of how we percieve His actions or we don't...
The video is not for those who are easily offended or sensitive as the speaker is very plain, direct, and a little silly/sarcastic, but I like that type lol,,..I hope those following this thread will take the 9 minutes to watch it ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxZKJSNVgqM
I think that this video is extremely clear cut with regard to the dilemma that many people struggle with regarding God's love or lack of...
It is such a contradiction when we hear people preach that God loves everyone only to read in the scripture about hell and punishment etc,,.No wonder why people are confused. They are told that God loves them and the next minute they are being told this same loving God is throwing them in hell...
The reason that most unbelievers feel confused about this subject is because we have folk preaching that God loves the whole world,,blah,,blah,,blah,,It is simply not true..
GSD mod asks a very good question that bears answering..The answer is not pleasant or well recived..To be perfectly honest, I struggle with the answer myself..I am espeacially sensitive to the issue of violence towards children and animals, but I keep going back to the fact that God's thoughts, ways, and intentions,are beyond and greater then what I am able to understand. I do however trust Him and that is what it must come down to..We either except that God is Holy and Just in all He does regarless of how we percieve His actions or we don't...
The video is not for those who are easily offended or sensitive as the speaker is very plain, direct, and a little silly/sarcastic, but I like that type lol,,..I hope those following this thread will take the 9 minutes to watch it ...
by gouda on 21 March 2013 - 16:03
Here you go Deana.
Gods action on the VESSELS OF WRATH,is not immediate distruction.
He endures them with much longsuffering. These people are prepared for
destruction under Gods judgment,BUT ARE NOT DESTINED BY GOD FOR THAT END.
They can be saved and receive Gods mercy EPHE.2:3-6
Why does God endure sinners? if they do not repent,His patience will make the Justice
of His wrath all the more evident. If they do repent,He will be able to show His saving power towards them.
He wants to lead them to repentance see 2:4.
gouda
Gods action on the VESSELS OF WRATH,is not immediate distruction.
He endures them with much longsuffering. These people are prepared for
destruction under Gods judgment,BUT ARE NOT DESTINED BY GOD FOR THAT END.
They can be saved and receive Gods mercy EPHE.2:3-6
Why does God endure sinners? if they do not repent,His patience will make the Justice
of His wrath all the more evident. If they do repent,He will be able to show His saving power towards them.
He wants to lead them to repentance see 2:4.
gouda
by Felloffher on 21 March 2013 - 16:03
Ruger,
For me there is no dilemma, the bile doesn't give me the impression that it was inspired by a all knowing and all powerful being. GSD Admin's post very clearly shows verses in which man used God as an inspiration or as fear based motivator to commit unthinkable acts against others in a quest for power. God's "chosen" people that fought holy wars in the Old Testament by today's standard would be labeled fundamentalists and most likely terrorists. If it wasn't for the philosophers that wrote the New Testament and the invention of Jesus, we would have Christian's running around blowing people up with suicide vests.
For me there is no dilemma, the bile doesn't give me the impression that it was inspired by a all knowing and all powerful being. GSD Admin's post very clearly shows verses in which man used God as an inspiration or as fear based motivator to commit unthinkable acts against others in a quest for power. God's "chosen" people that fought holy wars in the Old Testament by today's standard would be labeled fundamentalists and most likely terrorists. If it wasn't for the philosophers that wrote the New Testament and the invention of Jesus, we would have Christian's running around blowing people up with suicide vests.
by Ruger1 on 21 March 2013 - 18:03
Felloffher, Hey thanks for responding, I was beginning to think my video was too much and I chased people away,,lol..
You said, " For me there is no dilemma, the bile doesn't give me the impression that it was inspired by a all knowing and all powerful being.".
.Well based on your comment here I understand why you feel the way you do..Unless you believe that Scripture is inspired by an all knowing powerful being then it a moot point for you
It will always come down to this,
We either believe that we our selves do not establish or determine what is right or wrong and accept that only God determines that or we don't..
We either believe that all that God does is right or we don't..
We either believe that God is Holy and Just or we don't...
We either understand the nature and seriousness of our sin or we don't..
We either see the actions of God as perfectly Just and Fair or we don't.
if we don't believe that God is who He says He is and if we do not believe that God even exists, then all this is a moot point..
If you believe that the Old and New Testament are just excuses to exercise violence then all of this is a moot point..
Then in that case you must find a different religion or none at all..However, your decision to to neglect the truth does not change it,,You will then face the very real reality that one day you may face the Just and Holy consequence of a God that does exists .....
The Old Testament represents a bending over backward and forbearance/tolerance by God toward a stubborn, and disobedient people/culture..Unfortunatly there are always consequences to rebellion against God.
You said, " For me there is no dilemma, the bile doesn't give me the impression that it was inspired by a all knowing and all powerful being.".
.Well based on your comment here I understand why you feel the way you do..Unless you believe that Scripture is inspired by an all knowing powerful being then it a moot point for you
It will always come down to this,
We either believe that we our selves do not establish or determine what is right or wrong and accept that only God determines that or we don't..
We either believe that all that God does is right or we don't..
We either believe that God is Holy and Just or we don't...
We either understand the nature and seriousness of our sin or we don't..
We either see the actions of God as perfectly Just and Fair or we don't.
if we don't believe that God is who He says He is and if we do not believe that God even exists, then all this is a moot point..
If you believe that the Old and New Testament are just excuses to exercise violence then all of this is a moot point..
Then in that case you must find a different religion or none at all..However, your decision to to neglect the truth does not change it,,You will then face the very real reality that one day you may face the Just and Holy consequence of a God that does exists .....
The Old Testament represents a bending over backward and forbearance/tolerance by God toward a stubborn, and disobedient people/culture..Unfortunatly there are always consequences to rebellion against God.
Sin is treason against a perfectly pure Sovereign God. It is an act of supreme ingratitude toward the One to whom we owe everything, to the One who has given us life itself. . It is the pure mercy and grace of God that he does not punish sin instantly. “Far from being a history of a harsh God, the Old Testament is a record of a God who is patient in the extreme.” And the same portrait of God is found in the new Testament.. ( the highlighted portion is a quote I like )
by gouda on 21 March 2013 - 18:03
http://www.toughquestion.org
gouda
gouda
by Two Moons on 21 March 2013 - 18:03
It all comes down to this?
No, it is far more complex than just your version of a god.
Nothing about it could ever be that simple.
This ongoing debate over scripture is clear evidence of that.
No, it is far more complex than just your version of a god.
Nothing about it could ever be that simple.
This ongoing debate over scripture is clear evidence of that.
by Felloffher on 21 March 2013 - 18:03
It will always come down to this,
We either believe that we our selves do not establish or determine what is right or wrong and accept that only God determines that or we don't..
Loosely paraphrasing Richard Dawkins; Morality has evolved in spite of religious teachings. We no longer stone people, burn people at the stake, kill homosexuals, keep slaves and we no longer sacrifice animals or people to god. The history of Western civilization and it's changes over the past 100 years is a good indication that we are able to rationalize and collectively agree on what is morally acceptable.
We either believe that we our selves do not establish or determine what is right or wrong and accept that only God determines that or we don't..
Loosely paraphrasing Richard Dawkins; Morality has evolved in spite of religious teachings. We no longer stone people, burn people at the stake, kill homosexuals, keep slaves and we no longer sacrifice animals or people to god. The history of Western civilization and it's changes over the past 100 years is a good indication that we are able to rationalize and collectively agree on what is morally acceptable.
by Ruger1 on 21 March 2013 - 18:03
Moons, For me that is what it comes down to..Simple or not,,:)
Felloffher, I believe that there is a basic knowledge of what is moral in the conscience of all people, but submitting to it is another thing all together,,I think what has changed over the last 100 years is our standard of morality is a lot lower.Kind of like making a test easier because kids can't pass it.. We accept immorality much easier now then over the last 100 years, but the standard has not changed IMO..
Felloffher, I believe that there is a basic knowledge of what is moral in the conscience of all people, but submitting to it is another thing all together,,I think what has changed over the last 100 years is our standard of morality is a lot lower.Kind of like making a test easier because kids can't pass it.. We accept immorality much easier now then over the last 100 years, but the standard has not changed IMO..
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