What is a Gansta Dog? - Page 14

Yes Susie…Europe does have an advantage. But how often does one of those “raw” dogs really make that great of an impact on the breed as a whole? How often do you get a dog that comes out of no where to become a great producer without seeing the big names from the prior decade in their pedigree? I know distances are shorter between clubs and there are so many more clubs that there are that many more dogs to be able to see and test…but it doesn’t change the fact that very few of those dogs that succeed only at a “club level” have hundreds or thousands of progeny the way the dogs that get to the regional/national events do.

How much of Tom’s “greatness” lies in Ellute, Vito, or some of the dogs Duke listed? How much of Asko is Leon and through Leon Neo or Bolle? More currently, how much of Quardes is Fyte’s success or Dexter’s? And that’s not including some of the other HUGE names in the pedigrees of all those dogs.

Plenty of dogs out there that produce dogs that are capable of doing IPO or even real work. Anyone that looks at it objectively will tell you that it’s not rocket science to produce a good working dog. Higher level dogs? Much more difficult…but with the national podium dogs and especially the world team dogs, how much of the equation is the handler/trainer that has that raw dog and is able to train it to the level today’s sport requires?

Bav, I am no breeder, I only care about the dogs I (want to) own, and I always had the best success when I personally knew as many ancestors as possible ( and I was able to "pick" my pup ).

Impact on the breed ? That´s up to the breeders - they decide about the future of our breed, neither SV nor any trials.

At the end of the day only a trained dog will show its real potential, everything else is just a guess ( he could, he would, he might...).

BW: Anyone that looks at it objectively will tell you that it’s not rocket science to produce a good working dog.

I read up on IPO3 and for me the same applies its not rocket science everyone can do.

Your on a roll.

Duke:"also im saying if you have a grandson, or great grandson of such dog, you have no guarantee your pup will have, or pass on the genes of his "line originator" as you have more dogs on that pups pedigree that influence the "soup " as you wish to call it"

Hans : Am I reading this right?
Are you actually at the point where you talk about if there is a guarantee in breeding dogs? Wow!

BW:"Yes…the chances of producing a “great” dog are just as good with two random dogs as they are with using a “great” stud. The pedigree is actually a small piece of what makes a great dog. "
What makes stud "great" is not just his performance but that if he is bred to different females he passes on his progeny his characteristics. That is what makes "great" stud.

Gigante:"If random dogs create great dogs, pedigree's being fairly insignificant then why not shop at your local byb? If the trainer is the single greatest factor to great dogs then they could shop next door instead of travelling. Throw a pebble hit a puppy go to the nationals rinse and repeat. No need to choose an older dog."
Exactly!

prager, learn to read, im writing that doing something DOES NOT give you any guarantees

also im not talking random dogs, im talking about really good dogs that are not famous for whatever reason

@ susie, dogs surviving training and trailing maybe was so about ten years and more back, but with todays training methods that doesnot applie anymore

Gigante...keep rocket science on the back burner and work on English grammar so that I can understand what you're saying and reply to it.

The point of my post was that if you give a good "raw" dog to an exceptional trainer, that is the best chance you have of having that dog make it to a national or even world stage in order to influence the breed by creating demand for a large number of breedings. There are plenty of very good dogs out there at clubs that will never get the recognition necessary to become widely used stud dogs or a dog that is spoken about for the rest of time...why? Their handler holds them back time and time again. A great "genetic" dog that shows all the raw ability will never get the recognition necessary to become a historic stud dog without competing at a high level and showing the dog to a wider audience.

Good working dogs...those that are at clubs and perform the work without issue but are held back by their owners. Police dogs which are trained in a certain way for whatever reason, are not impossible to breed. Put in a little work, test your stock, be objective, and you can get some very good dogs that are more than capable of doing whatever the owner asks of them.

I know breeders who have had multiple top 20 finishers at national championships in their first 5 breedings...yet we've got a group here that has gone through the alphabet and never had a puppy sniff that type of success. Why? Not enough connections and not enough achievement by their own breeding dogs to get the attention of the top trainers in this country who could possibly turn their dogs into something.

BW I will try and type slower for you, so you also can understand.

What ever point your trying to make is lost with these broad silly comments that show you to be clueless and empty with regards to having anything to share on the subject of breeding.

Stick to playing on the grass.

PS good working dogs go to work not to the park to train sport. Nothing against it just not the same.

"Stick to playing on the grass"

Well in fairness giganticego you could get off the internet and on the grass to title your own breeding stock.