Meditation vs Prayer - Page 14

I think, simply, that it would not be a very long list;
but you would not like Plato to fall from his marble plinth,
so you don't want the [first] quote to be 'wrong'.  So I believe
you are dissembling, dear !   ( But thank you for your kind
words.)

BTW is that 2nd 'quote' at the end of your last post genuine
 Plato ?   Reads like it was written in at least the 20th century.

You are certainly right about one thing - there is a "distance
between our value systems".  I have posted before about the
apparent impossibility of religious believers (however sane !)
to put themselves completely inside the head of atheists and
see the world & our existance from that side of the metaphorical
fence.   I don't believe it is half as hard for the rest of us, cos most
were dragged up in some faith or other as children.

In re:  days gone by, I don't even try to put 'more' or 'less than' in front of
ethical (moral),  as that is meaningless - we have to exist in the Now.  
Only the religious worry about storing up points for the afterlife.

Hundmutter - Perhaps I overestimate you after all,lol. Your last post is replete with logical fallacy, includes an ad hominem, all while culminating to prove my point. For the time being (until otherwise necessary perhaps), I'll simply say that one cannot apply the double standard to the world views. Even so, you assume too much of my own journey, maybe others' as well. Read back carefully Hund, I've proven the seat upon which Plato rests, while your efforts have been shown hollow. There are matters of opinion here between us both, but you clearly do not enjoy validity of argument. This is priceless:
 

I don't even try to put 'more' or 'less than' in front of
ethical (moral),  as that is meaningless - we have to exist in the Now.  
Only the religious worry about storing up points for the afterlife.

You prove my point.  Your admission here effectively finds your "now" depreciated by your tomorrow, only to then inadvertently equate any substantive value of ethics with a myopic view of religion.  It is not for me to say here that one is "better" in some way, we all chose our paths.  What is true, what has been proven here, is that in your paradigm good nor evil exist in and of themselves. 

Oh I agree Carlin that in my world-view neither "good nor evil exist
in and of themselves".   It appears that you seem unable to see the
arguments for this.  That illustrates my claim that, even hypothetically,
you cannot see 'objective truth' as atheists experience it, because your 
faith won't allow you to - however independant minded you see yourself.

How many times can you say paradigm without passing out.

You are no Plato that's for sure, and what difference would it make if you were.

No matter what paradigm you find yourself in true right and wrong, no matter what the majority thinks stays the same.


 

I'll simply say that one cannot apply the double standard to the world views. Even so, you assume too much of my own journey, maybe others' as well.

I have stood in those shoes (and that for some time), surveyed the land, and embraced it as such, perhaps to an extent beyond which most atheists are willing or able.  Although I may be inclined to say that I can appreciate the atheist world view far better than any atheist can appreciate mine, I will only offer that it isn't reasonable to assert the inverse. In either case how would one provide evidence? One cannot, which is why I saw no point, though you somehow thought it reasonable.  As for good and evil, you have made no argument, evidenced by a competent and trained analysis of your posts.  You needn't take my word, any rational individual with an understanding of logic will suffice.  The premises are sound and the argument valid and indefeasible, necessarily and by definition, objective.  What is subjective (if you read back your posts), is simply everything that you have offered -opinion (and here I am generous). 

Moons - You wouldn't know Plato from Play-Doh if they both hit you in the head. 

How would you know..........

Not sure you want me to answer that.

It doesn't matter Carlin,
I'm glad your around, other wise I don't think I could go on for long here present company considered, I just get tickled by the long winded high tone of some of your writing technique.

No matter what we don't know anything really about one another do we.
Only bits and pieces...impressions and illusions.


 

I just get tickled by the long winded high tone of some of your writing technique.

Different people communicate in different ways.  I don't value or measure people by how many books they've read or how many different languages they can speak.  Some of the people I have admired most are not what someone may consider "learned".  There are times, when I need to be specific.  Not everyone will just shoot it straight like yourself.  Take this thread for instance, I needed a scalpel to carefully remove an abscess from argument. 

No, I suppose we don't really know, or can't be sure.