USA Sieger Show 2007 - Results... - Page 13

Importing handlers for Sieger shows in the USA A person choosing to compete in a national event doesnt just need to have a fat wallet, they need to have common sense. German judges are familiar with German handlers. They know each other and they speak the same language. Few American handlers and owners speak German and even fewer German judges speak good English. However, we must never lose sight of the fact that they are the fatherland and in charge of the breed and its standard, not us. This spring, airfares to bring in a handler were as low as $510 and as high as $800. Host hotel costs were $90 a day. Then of course there were the costs of feeding the handlers brought in to work for you, A fair estimate would be a minimum of $35 a day. Thats a bare minimum of $1135 for the show. Keep in mind that doesnt include the transportation costs to and from the airport! For the sake of conversation, why not check to see how many of the first 4 dogs in each class were handled by American handlers and how many were handled by Germans. Paticularly in the upper classes, not in the puppy ones. Then decide where you will get the most "bang for your buck" next time you show at a sieger show.

IF YOU WANT TO PLAY YOU HAVE TO PAY. I keep reading about how the Germans wont sell you their best dogs. Of course they will, its just that other nations are more willing to pay the prices they ask and most Americans are not. This years Siegerin was co-owned by a man that has been in Shepherds for only 4 years! In that time he has bought and owned a VA8 male, a VA6 female and now has this years Siegerin! While its no ones business as to what he paid for his dogs I would venture a guess that none exceeded $20,000 USD and none less than $10,000. Now if you truly believe that you can buy a $2,000 dog and win a big show like this, I think you should reconsider. If you wish to show a pure black dog, or even a sable, reconsider. For whatever reason the german Heirarchy have, these dogs rarely make VA or even high V at the German Sieger show. Why? because thats the way they choose to do things. Occasionally there are exceptions, but smart gamblers dont bet on long odds and more than smart breeders do when wanting to win. Standing on the sidelines whining and kabitzing wont change the system. While it may impress your fellow writers who dont show(or worse, never show)or the ones that do and generally whose dogs place badly to those willing and strong enough to compete and learn, I for one salute you for having had the guts to do so. If your dogs placed badly for any reason, you now have the choice to either buy another of better quality, or quit as so many others have before you. But please don't ridicule those who keep on trying. not all people are physically capable of Sch training their dogs. Many of us hold down jobs that require us to work 15 or more hours a day. We have kids we are raising and taking to ball games on weekends. We love our dogs as fervently as those of you that stay home and are either retired out of work or whatever. We too, do the best we can.

Paranshep, your last post seems to be pretty much a contradiction to your second. If the SV judges are so carefully chosen and "licensed" then I would have to think that who is handling the dog should not really matter, assuming that handler is not a rank amateur and presents the dog well. If a person has an outstanding dog, then why should it be necessary to pay outrageous fees to have their dog presented by the "right" handler. It's the judge's job to find the best dogs in the ring, not the most familiar faces, isn't it? There would be no need to try to get more bang for your buck if the judges looked at the damned dogs and not the handlers. A benefit for the handlers would be that they would no longer have to wear those tacky "team colors" embossed with kennel names. Why does the SV allow that? There would no doubt be a gross surplus of flourescent orange jogging suits listed for sale on ebay. If there were more SV judges, you might just see some fairer judging and prohibiting any judge from passing on a dog he bred himself should be one of the first things the SV outlaws. I sat at ringisde at a NASS and watched a judge place a dog of his breeding V5 in a very large youth class in front of many dogs that were obviously far better dogs. Everyone watching knew it was a gifted placement. Why don't more in the US get licensed to judge at SV shows? Maybe because there are few shows and they know they would not get the assignment anyway since the big players from Germany will be selected instead. I might not be seeing the entire picture, but it sure looks to me like one big fat scam going on here and it is not set up to benefit breeders in the US. It is not in the best interests of the breed to tilt that playing field in favor of well known handlers and their favorite judges. Many good dogs are never going to see the inside of the show ring and those who do may not ever get the recognition they deserve unless the owner can afford to and choose to use a big name from Germany? We all know that the majority of big name breeders will only breed to the higest ranked dogs. Anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

paranshep, you forgot one other thing. IF you want to win the sieger show you also have to be politically connected. which to me means it's not as much about the dog, it's about who you know.

Blitzen, well done.

It wasn't mentioned that the co owner of the Siegerin who paranshep mentioned, had "connections" as well as money. Even if you are willing to part with a very large sum of cash for a so called investment, you can very easily get screwed and end up with a lemon. Way too much politics for sure, between the judges and handlers. $20k+ for co- ownership of a bitch? That's just ridiculous to me. T-

Another point: There are LOTS of shows throughout Germany during seasonably weather. Many handlers train and handle lots of dogs every weekend. "Practice Makes Perfect!" We in the US do not have a fraction of the opportunities to hone our skills, nor do our dogs have the opportunities for "seasoning", especially in events with large classes, large crowds, and the distraction that goes with both that is available in Germany, often without the need to travel great distances or spend boat loads of money. This is a lesson hard-learned by anyone taking their highly-placed-in-US-Sieger-Show dog over to show in the BSZS the first time. I don't care how many American S/S's you have entered, the first time you try to double-handle your dog in the BSZS, the scale of the event alone is overwhelming for both handler AND dog. The LGA shows over there are comparable to our largest events, and there's one in every region, every year! I've been to junior events with classes of 35 dogs or more! Small wonder dogs and handlers coming here to our little events often perform so much better than our own beautiful-if-unseasoned counterparts. If/when I have another top prospect worth "whatever-it-takes" to get the placing its quality deserves, I will certainly take/send it to the Fatherland for a season, making sure it is shown under that year's judge for the major events I intend to enter, both for the dogs' experience, and also to insure that my dog will be recognized immediately in the catalog before the event, and in the crowded ring later, the judge already familiar with my beautiful dog. Another lesson from Shelley's non-best-seller "School of Hard Knocks" library, dog-eared and dusty. ;) SS

The bottom line regarding dog show wins is and will always be that the breeders who are worth their salt always know which dogs are the best, they do not need a judge to tell them. Breeding only according to show wins is not really the thinking man's way of breeding better dogs. I must admit I do derive a certain amount of entertainment watching how many GSD breeders wait until after the Siegershau to pick the next sire of their next world class litter.

Shelly, why don't local GSD clubs sponsor events like fun matches where they could offer any classes they wanted. Puppy sweepstakes, junior handling, veterans classes, basic tracking, things like that. Not enough members maybe? It would be a great money maker for the club and the participants could also benefit. Why not have a series of weekly handling classes taught by an experienced handler?

Paranshep.. I am not sure if your post(s) were directed at those of us disappointd by the "lack of judging" for the dogs mentioned. But they main reason for the critism is the fact that irregardless if it is only one judge's opinion or whatever, it automatically dismisses the dogs for competing towards the Universal Siger title. They need at least an SG at the USA Sieger Show to qualify. These dogs are not left with any Plan B so to speak. There is no other show to try, that's it, they are now out of the running. Certainly in an instance where the dog did not show well, or was not at least SG in the structure, fine. But certainly in the case of Jasper, who despite a full showline pedigree yet labeled "working lines" by the judge on the loud speaker, and quickly dismissed from the ring, despite a quality experienced GERMAN handler, and showing himself well, and being worthy of at least an SG any day of the week, it's a shame. This will no doubt discourage many people from working towards this achievement in the future. Greatly disappointing when we should eb encouraging more people to declare trying for such an achievement. I think both working lines fans and showlines fans can stand back and smile when they see a GSD who can excel in both worlds. Much like the age limit was done away with for the HOT Championship...to encourage a wider a scope of entries, these dogs at the Siger show deserved not a gift, but what they rightly were qualified and trained to earn. In closing, you will see no argument from me as far as how expensive a Sieger show or imported Judges are. That goes without saying. But unlike a working championship, the large number of entries more than covers those expenses. On the same note, if it costs me several thousands dollars to compete at a working championship, including travel for training to prepare, airfare, hotel, car rental, etc....I would not bat an eye lash to greatly compensate a good handler if one were to show my dog at a Sieger show...not that would EVER happen, especially now. And the guy who called Molly to rudely bash her opinion on the handling of Alex, Pedro's dog, if you want to call me to bash me for my opinion, go for it buddy. Phone number is on my web site. Kandi Jacopino www.rokanhaus.com Canaan CT