Milo's Necropsy Report - Page 13

" Which is more important?"

That's a tough question.  Would you rather have a dog with weak temperament and great hips or vice-versa?

"I'd opt to buy from a breeder who just does it all."

Which is exactly my point.

"I don't look at an LR as a way to elminate competition, I consider it a good way to keep pet quality dogs from producing dogs that are eligible for registration. What's the alternative?"



I'd agree with you, except I haven't seen one breeder use it for that.  Everyone I know has put the Limited on a dog, and the same dog is also breeding material IF you are willing to pay a couple hundred more dollars.

Most of the breeders I know use the LR in an honest well-meaning way, RS, but they are not GSD breeders. This breed is unique in many ways and how breeders guarantee their dogs and grade their puppies is one of them LOL. 

--- > A BYB IMO is the breeder who breeds RinTinTin XXX to Doll Baby XXX with no thought to xrays or health checks. 

and what do you call a breeder who chic tests all the sires and dams and has multiple liters in the house, all the time, for sale, and what do you call it when this breeder doubles up on SERIOUS health problems for which there are no tests, and then receives a breeder of merit award from the AKC? I call it BS! No different than a BYB, to me, despite the testing of the sires and dams.  Just someone who learned how to beat the system...

All interesting stuff.   I get the BYB thing and I don't think this is the case, but I will find out shortly.  The breeder contract states that  we must return the dog back to them if for any reason, we are not 100% satisfied.  I'll take  my chances with that contract.  I was asked at least 3 times if I was absolutely certain that I wanted one of their dogs.  She also "grilled me" on my background, environment and family.  

Why is the breeder that we bought Milo and Rocco from any different that a puppy mill?  Is it because they have produced World Siegers?  In my opinion it's a puppy mill on 40 acres.  Why doesn't anyone stop them?  I think the reason is that people are afraid of her. Can one person be so powerful in the dog world that people look away when it comes to breeding practices?  Maybe if more breeder were held responsible for what they produced, the situation would be different.

What reputable breeder does not ask about the potential new owners and their household?  Provide a Bill of Sale?  Provide and make the buyer sign a conntract? Provide a pedigree listing? I did however receive a zip lock bag of Eukanuba and 2, maybe 3 cans of dog food.  The only question that I was asked was "will this be cash or check?" I have received emails, IMs and even had a couple of phone conversations with people that own or have owned dogs from this kennel. The conversations were all very similar if you get my drift.

Mike

As I've pointed out countless times in this thread, Mike, there is a happy middle between large commercial breeders and those who do virtually nothing to prove the breedworthiness of their dogs.

Mcap wrote:

"Hexe, if you are so concerned, I would pick up the phone and call Kim at Pathwork, before you slam her.   As the old saying goes....Opinions are like xxxholes...everyone has one.  Get over it and enjoy life...it's doesn't last that long!"

Wow.  *I* slammed her?  Where?  And there's no point in me calling the breeder: she's not likely to change her preference for oversized GSDs, and that was the ONLY negative comment I made regarding their dogs. 

There's naught for me to get over, Mike--I don't breed, broker, sell, or show dogs, so there's nothing in it for me if you get your dogs from the top breeder in the world, or the scurviest backyard operator in the hood--I simply don't like to see people get their hearts broken if it can be avoided, or at least hedged against.

I repeat what I closed my previous post with, and it's the last I'll say on the matter:

"The new pup is no more and no less of a 'crap shoot' than any other puppy, though, and may well be perfect in every way, and go on to die in his sleep at the ripe old age of 18 years...so who knows?"

Mcap,
   I discussed your situation with you on the other forum and am deeply sorry for your loss and experience.  As someone who has also gone through similar heartache and purchased from both a BYB and a so-called reputable larger scale breeder, both with disappointing outcomes,  I understand completely what Keith and some of these others are trying to explain.  It's not about the size of the kennel or how many Seigers they own.  It's about the breeders and whether or not they are producing dogs to the German Shepherd standards and actually KNOW and UNDERSTAND the dogs and lines they are breeding.  For a long time, I had trouble deciphering this as well.  About 6 months ago, a very experienced member of this forum took the time to sort of school me on some of these things.  He sent me to pick out breeders I thought were reputable and produced dogs based on what I thought I was looking for, and then together, we would go through everything - the dogs and lines they bred, their contracts, health testing and titling.  He taught me A LOT and really removed some serious blinders for me.  One thing he said to me that I think applies to the ongoing argument and always sticks in my head is this -

Ask yourself this, if the breeder you want to purchase from has not worked/titled a dog, how can they tell you what the dog is about? How do they KNOW?

And yes, we all know people that have dogs that are FANTASTIC in their owners yards/homes, but take them out into the big world and wow!

I truly hope this pup is all you are hoping for and a wonderful addition to your family. 

Marjorie, I don't know any breeders who do that,  so I'm not sure how to respond to that question. If I did, I would probably think of them more as  puppy millers than a BYB.  Either way they would not be someone I would buy a dog from or recommend.

I was wondering if you can post what kind of Chinese herbs your vet had Milo on?  I too use some natural supplements, ie: milk thistle, sam-e and others.  My vet is not a holistic vet, but does believe in trying natural remdies.   Thank you.