Von Erzengel Z littler Puppy with Major Genetic Defects - Page 13

trp k9

Actually 3/3 hips are equivelent to borderline.  4/4 is HD.  0/2 is actually excellent/fair.  I am not sying you are wrong.  Just because you have 0/0 doesnt mean that you will reproduce 0/0.  You are right that linebreeding brings out the bad as well as the good traits. 

It is a well established rumor that Grim produces bad hips.  The issue has been brought up numerous times on this site.  I don't have the statistics from Grim's progeny, but I would love to see those results. 

I would take a Dargo Ha ja da (Grim son) any day, but I'll be damned if I linebred to Grim.

I'm sorry but some of this is simply not ringing true.  14K in expenses?  I'm sorry I dont buy that.  Now granted I was not a math major in college, but lets add just a few things up k?  Purchase price of dog  $800.... lets say shipping was WILDLY overrated at $600.... crate, health cert. additional $200 ( again pretty high).  x-rays, 2 views ap and lat.  plus exam and bloodwork I would charge $320.  Pet insurance for most companies is approximately $10 per month.  So lets say.. again wild numbers here, twice that for a year.  $240. 

So far we are up to an approximate total of $2300....

Thats 2.3 K.... NOT 14K  so can you please help us out on where the other approximately 12 THOUSAND is coming from?

You also stated in your very first post that this puppy was ... "This litter is registered with the AKC as having no defects"  Can you please explain this to me and how you came about this statement?

I'm sorry but while I sympathize with the extreme disappointment of having a pup not turn out the way you wanted, I simply think there might be more going on here that you are not saying, or admitting.

Lisa

Witmer Tyson Kennels is just up the street.  It was the daughter of Randy Tyson who first noticed the elbow problem with my puppy in her training class and advised me to see my vet and an ortho. specialist.  She also physcially checked the hips and told me something was wrong but that only a specialist could determine.  The dog was just starting to limp slightly.  This was in early May by late May the pups elbow swollen and he was having a hard time getting up from a sitting position.    I would be more than happy to have Witmer -Tyson give an opinion to Melinda if she believes this is fake.  I think everyone can agree here they are a good reputable kennel.  Melinda, give them a call and I will take time off of work and cover any expenses they request for a look at my puppy.  650-364-6987.    Thanks for the suggestion.

It's my opinion that no matter what proof I have, or what others opinions are, Melinda will blame this on anyone but herself and poor breeding.

The fact that a NZ to a NZ breeding is never a good idea and I do not have a problem with NZ, 2/0, 0/2 or 2/2 (all the same btw). But line breeding on this kind a rating is down right insane! 

Take the money and go away! 

That is what you should have done if she actually offered the money at day two.

Nobody told you to spend all of this money on the dog.

You should have taken the money and shut up!

You have not denied the e-mails, so I will take them as true.  She offered the money and you did not take it.  Shut up!

You could have taken the money the second day you had the cycloptic dwarf.  You could have bought a dog on day foru from your new buddy, Randy.

the 14k is from the orthopedic specialist.  It was 1k for the xrays-  I have the receipt to provide, they have to put the dog under in order to get the best pics.  He stated if the elbow was not so bad it would cost 2 k to fix the elbow and 12k for a total hip replacement on this dog.  He is not eligible with his severe eblow dyplasia. 

The Breeder told me this litter was registered with the AKC, I do have the litter paperwork and she stated defect free.  Of course not being a breeder I took her at her word

I have seen the pictures of the x-rays of this pup (assuming they are x-rays of this pup) and indeed the hips are terrible - especially one, which I would call "severe" with terrible boney mal-formation and nearly not seated in the hip socket at all.  The other hip joint is not as bad, but still IMO would not pass OFA.  I have not seen the elbow x-rays and have of course not seen the pup himself.  Just an outside opinion based solely on the hip x-rays.  Just something to note - there was no name/identification on the x-rays that I saw, however I have no reason to believe they are not x-rays of this pup "Zach".  I hope this all works out to the satisfaction of the puppy buyer, the breeder AND the puppy. 

molly

Molly

Although your opinion is very well respected, that is beside the point.  The breeder is not denying that the pup may have HD and the owner is not denying that money was offered.  She should have taken the money and shut up!  Have any of your pups ever developed anything that money was refunded?  How would you feel if you tried to refund someone's money and they refused, only to bash you on a GSD site?

You are talking about the German system. Get your facts straight. When Ben was breeding- it was Czechoslovakia. I am writing from Slovakia so I am well aware of Slovak Republic and Czech Republic.

Slovakia has their own system for hip rating officially in Suchno. The rating is A,B,C for breeding

C= 2

B= 1

A= 0

These are the facts. I am not going to argue but put this in your book of knowledge because this is how it is. Josef has lived here- working dogs and judging for 20 years. We have had hundreds of dogs xrayed.

On pedigree datebase, people can write whatever they want on pedigrees. For example, Chuligan z Boskovstejna is listed as VA in 1980 at 8 years old. There was no VA in Czechoslovakia. It did not exist. Someone just wrote it in there. Same thing on Bens hips. Someone wrote dysplastic on his pedigree in the data base.

Taunya

Taunya

How many dogs are going to the WUSV from your kennel?