Be honest : Is this your dog? - Page 12

I will ask you a further question:

Do you think Anna will last into double figures, without
developing crippling arthritis, or diabetes, or both, if
you maintain her at her current bodyweight while she
is still not yet two years old ?

Not telling you anything; just asking you to think about
the Standard info given and to give yourself an honest
answer.

How the hell did this thread go from the opening post to another discussion as to whether Mithuna's dog is carrying too much weight [again]? I hope she's not, but that's not my problem. None of us have ever seen her or had a hand on her, and given her reported behavior at the vet's recently, it's hard to say if the vet was able to actually assess whether her body condition score or not, which matters more than the numbers on the scale.

Mithuna, re Drago vom Patriot's show rating, it was gotten at an OG [local club level] event, as was the breed survey; the latter was done when he was 2 years and 3 days of age, and his official measurement on that day was recorded as 65 cm [25.6"], official weight at 40 kg [88.2#]; he got his V6 show rating the following day.

As far as any dog's weight or height goes, however, if the most impressive fact about the animal is its size, I'd be seeking out some great galumphing Ovcharka, or a freakin' grizzly bear. I prefer a German Shepherd Dog, and that's meant to be a medium-sized breed.

Hexe, as usual

Thank you, Hexe...

Drago is pretty well recorded, but what about Mambo? ( Drago is a lot of dog for a German Shepherd dog, too much in my opinion in case of breeding, but he is no giant, too - he simply embodies the development of the breed, favored by the personal taste of buyers, but bred to the right females his advantages for sure are more important than his disadvantages ).

As you know I am a greenhorn in case of East European German Shepherd dogs...

I wasn´t able to find any officially measured weight/height for Mambo, I saw one (!) video doing him breed survey routine ( looked good ), I read several times the same description on several websites ( past and copy ?), he was leased, sold, used as a stud, and the last (?) owner describes him as stable, dominant, normal sized dog, with defense and a lot of prey...

Looking back at the pic you started your thread with, Mambo for sure would sit in front of the snowman for quite some while, waiting for the reward... ( IPO trained = sleeve trained, with a lot of natural prey ).

Doesn´t speak against the dog, just speaks about the training.

Mithuna, play ball with your female for some seconds, and than put the ball in a tree where she can´t get it. In case she already learned to guard in a sit position, she will sit in front of the tree, waiting for the reward, or ( in case you are in the beginning of training ) she will run around the tree, jumping up, trying to get the ball.

The more prey, the longer she will do so... dogs are dogs...

Ok so I still have not seen Hexe's and hntr's dogs! It is amazing how so many folks on this thread IMMEDIATEY moved to modify info on Drago to make him fit our COLLECTIVE misunderstanding. We minimize his V rating as local, ( or that V is not conformation, it must be an IPO rating ) we claim him to be 40 kg when working dog eu report his weight as 44 kgs ( 97.0034 lbs ), his IPO success is not a real test of exceptional athleticism , or he may be exceptionally fit at 97 lbs. A MORE INTELLIGENT ( and aesthetic ) approach would be to consider that the weight limits ( as per functionality ) is not absolute but rather it converges upon a particular number ( ex: 88 lbs for males ). This approach allows us to easily accommodate data outliers such as the Dragos, Mambos, and the Dastys.

They may be outside the weight limit but fully functional since the limit is a convergence rather than an absolute. And Susie yes, posters on another forum have confirmed that both Grim and Mambo z PS produce sporty dogs.

And VK Im no longer interested in seeing the vid. Hunde to answer your question...if the vet indicate that her weight is not healthy I would work with him to bring it to  a healthy value.

Mithuna - truth is:

WinSis uses OFFICIAL datas ( 40 kg, meisured twice with 3 years inbetween )
WorkingDog uses datas given from owners ( 44 kg = the owner writes down whatever he wants )

I don´t even question that he is 44 kgs now, but for sure with this weight he is not in best trial shape...

Further on for years oversized dog were measured constantly "65 cm" - in the breed survey report they call these dogs "large". As far as I know Drago is somewhere between 66 - 66,5 cm.

We are used to this size and weight for decades now, but this doesn´t disperse the problem. Sure there are overzised dogs able to do the IPO routine on a high level, but in case of agility and endurance it´s not good for the breed as a whole.

There are some very agile 2 meter Basketball players, but the average human when that tall is not very agile any more.
I personally know a very thick woman who is a very good tennis player, but that´s not normal, that´s an exception.

Your female may be 65 cm, she may weigh 88 lb ( why should you lie ? ), she even may be agile, sporty, with a lot of endurance, but for the breed as a whole this can´t be the goal.

My understanding as said before is that these limits are to be understood as a  convergence not as an  absolute. As you move aqay from the convergent number functionality is affected. Precisely where the convergent range falls cannot be attained by yelling, screaming, throwing fits, and arguing ad hominem

Selection. Mithuna, if you are planning to be a breeder, selection is key. Whether you plan to produce city apartment dwelling gsd, or security rual dwelling gsd, it's all about selection.

Once again, out of the official standard ( FCI 166 ) - there are English translations somewhere

Größe / Gewicht :

Rüden:
Widerristhöhe 60 cm ( 23,62 inches ) bis 65 cm ( 25,59 inches ).
Gewicht: 30 kg ( 66,14 lb ) bis 40 kg ( 88,18 lb )

Hündinnen:

Widerristhöhe 55 cm ( 21,65 inches ) bis 60 cm ( 23,62 inches )
Gewicht 22 kg ( 48,50 lb ) bis 32 kg ( 70,55 lb )

I call this a "convergence" - but somewhere even a convergence does have a natural end...

Mithuna, you should do as Joan suggested & actually ask someone that has first hand knowledge of Norbo, Grim, & Mambo. I asked a friend who has had hands on-bred bitches to these males, owned Norbo's dam, owned offspring (& not just what they bred), etc. She said Norbo was about 85 lbs, Grim 90, & Mambo smaller (& shorter & wider). She said all of them had coats that made them look larger than they were.

The vast majority of the offspring & grandoffspring I have seen from Mambo & Grim are not what I would call "sporty" either. The Grim stuff certainly has more prey drive than, say, the dogs from Titus z PS I have seen/owned, but sporty as many of the wgwl are they are not. What I have seen is consistant with what my friend has told me as well.

Candace