Workinglines vs Showlines - Page 12

That's so true with most all breeds, SS. We often have the same discussion on Malamute breed boards. The Mals of today look and behave nothing like the ones that went on the Byrd Expedition or that served the Inuits. At one time it was one of the toughest breeds in the world, not so much anymore. 

Personally I like Klodo a lot judging by his photos When I was at the 2013 NS I was looking at their historical display and when I came to his photo I happened to be standing next to one of the pillars of the ASL, a judge who has bred more AKC CH's than anyone else. We were talking about Klodo and his type and when I said I often wish the breed hadn't changed and still looked like him. Her response was - no way, those dogs were too ugly then, they are much prettier today .

[sigh!] 

Remind me to PM you a recent example from a local breeder...

If the German Shepherd of today looked more like Klodo, we probably wouldn't have the whole SL vs WL debate. His body structure reminds me more of a good WL Border Collie than a typical GSD.

If the German Shepherd of today looked like Klodo, I wouldn't own one X.x

Haz, what do you mean by "He had shows but was very clear that they could not be used as criteria for breeding"? Von Stephanitz believed he could steer the breed by use of the show and appointing a Sieger. The show was a grade of the dog's structure and it was meant as one of the criteria for breeding. Everyone who is interested in the breed as the posters on this forum claim, deserve it to read Max's book at least once.

I rather like Klodo's utilitarian look. I don't find him unattractive at all. To me he is not an ugly GSD.

I am under the impression that Stephanitz advocated proofing dogs in the show ring too. I'm not sure he intended for breeders to pick and choose the traits they preferred while ignoring the whole dog.

Actually, the Captain advised against breeding " FOR" show or sport. He made it plain that you breed for utility and intelligence through working primarily, and things like beauty were secondary and never to base a breeding program on.....shows and trials were venues to participate in, not the standards for breeding. That's why function has to trump form.....though both are necessary. We have just twisted priorities to fit our likes, and to enable anybody to own one. 

There are still people that breed very functional dogs with excellent working structure, that are not extremes, and there always have been. They are not in the majority of fad and fashion, but they are in majority of knowledge of the breed.

One other thing, you often here people speak about " herding" structure and " herding" temperament" to justify the looks and movement of certain types of GS in the past thirty years. It is then implied that as the uses of the dog changed during the emergence of Industrial Age ( LE, Military, Service jobs), the form somewhat changed with the function away from the correct herding type, again implying these types concentrating on side gaiting anatomy were really the authentic type. Now all of this prolly sounds good to the novice and uninformed....lol, except that we countless pictures and narratives of the feats of the dogs that ACTUALLY were herding dogs during the pre industrial era. Examples of GS from inception to pre WW2, and guess what?.....they look structurally nothing like the dogs that actually were the herding dogs of these times. The reality is that the molders of the show type today, have been no closer to a herding pasture than a training field, and have based the anatomy of the dog on a pleasurable beauty in form and function that has not been proven to be successful in any working venue. 

Gustav, your post has me scratching my head a bit. Are you saying that some breeders are convinced the show line GSD  supposedly represents the correct structure for a herding dog?

I'd like to see examples of true herding GSDs from the earlier days, if you have pictures!