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by Abby Normal on 05 February 2012 - 17:02
GSDadmin
My statement as to Jantie's accuracy is in reference to Harley not being in the breed book, which has been confirmed. In addition to this whole situation with the fraud with Jaguar about which he has been entirely accurate.
You clearly have history with him, and I am not saying he is always right, I am just commenting on this particular situation.
However it's my belief that however he does it, Jantie fights on the side of 'right' for the GSD. I am not saying he is always right, but credit where credit is due.
My statement as to Jantie's accuracy is in reference to Harley not being in the breed book, which has been confirmed. In addition to this whole situation with the fraud with Jaguar about which he has been entirely accurate.
You clearly have history with him, and I am not saying he is always right, I am just commenting on this particular situation.
However it's my belief that however he does it, Jantie fights on the side of 'right' for the GSD. I am not saying he is always right, but credit where credit is due.
by Videx on 05 February 2012 - 18:02
The UK Kennel Club and other Kennel Clubs around the world would have NO hesitation registering Harley or probably Jaguar also, as well as their offspring born in the UK.
The UK Kennel Club registers numerous, probably thousands of litters from parents with NO hip scores/grades and NO elbow scores/grades and NO tattoo or microchip.
The UK Kennel Club registers numerous, probably thousands of litters from parents with NO hip scores/grades and NO elbow scores/grades and NO tattoo or microchip.
by GSD Admin on 05 February 2012 - 18:02
I understand how you all feel and my comments are not against what Jantie does but are more aimed at how he reports it.
I agree with the fact that Jantie seems to get things done but I just think we need to be careful because in the haste to uncover scandal sometimes short cuts are taken and innocent people are put to waste.
We require people with bad breeder stories to be personally involved and not be repeating stories heard 2nd hand and adding assumption to what they are saying. I have no problem when Jantie reports the facts but I do have issues when he assumes to know what the final outcome will be and because he was right this time does not mean he will be right the next time or the time after. Innocents will be hurt by this careless type of inserting assumptions in with facts and reporting it to the world as all fact.
When something is reported as abuse the admins are going to take a look at it and we are going to make a decision on the merits and the facts as we see them but we also look at past actions and how admin actions were handled in the past by the abusing member and we will use all of it to make a decision and I still stand by our decision of removal on the initial report.
I am out of here as I have super bowl plans.
Hope all of you have a great day.
I agree with the fact that Jantie seems to get things done but I just think we need to be careful because in the haste to uncover scandal sometimes short cuts are taken and innocent people are put to waste.
We require people with bad breeder stories to be personally involved and not be repeating stories heard 2nd hand and adding assumption to what they are saying. I have no problem when Jantie reports the facts but I do have issues when he assumes to know what the final outcome will be and because he was right this time does not mean he will be right the next time or the time after. Innocents will be hurt by this careless type of inserting assumptions in with facts and reporting it to the world as all fact.
When something is reported as abuse the admins are going to take a look at it and we are going to make a decision on the merits and the facts as we see them but we also look at past actions and how admin actions were handled in the past by the abusing member and we will use all of it to make a decision and I still stand by our decision of removal on the initial report.
I am out of here as I have super bowl plans.
Hope all of you have a great day.
by Skylagsd on 05 February 2012 - 20:02
That dog would not be bred in south africa. From what i have seen read about the UK Kennel Club it does not suprise me. The GSD is a big money business with all these competitions
by Oskar1 on 05 February 2012 - 21:02
Ok, I know it must s**k for you guys ! I will not go any deeper, because it is not about who was right and who was wrong - it was more like, because I dont like how stuff is written, I will delete it. Just let us put the crap aside.
And I will make an "assumption" aswell, there will be quite a bit of motion the next couple of weeks, hm, maybe it goes even faster than weeks !! Hopefully this will not make you delete my post !
What I would find more interesting would be to know the following :
1. Why did they want Jaguar to be X-rayed again here in Germany ?
2. Who wanted it to be done ?
3. Which Vet was so competend to "missread" a Tatoo & Micro Chip ?
My personal believe is, it sure was planned to get Harley into the SV (german) Breedbook - everything else would not make sense.Ah, here we are again, assumptions over assumptions ! Have him registered and then let the stud $ roll - the buyers will be happy, because now they would get the nice pink SV papers !
And yes David, we know that - does it make you feel better now ? I sure hope not - what was done is plain simply wreckless towards our, yes David, your breed aswell ! The fact that other breedregistrys around the world would register Jaguar & Harley, does not make it any better either, actually, that idear gives me mayor headaches. What does irritate me is, and that is directed towards GSDAdmin & David - why do you guys use the fact that other registrys are not that strict, as an excuse for your actions that you took to bring Jan down ? Makes me wonder if you are ok with the fact that Jaguar & Offsprings can happily breed thereafter !
Ulli
by Videx on 05 February 2012 - 21:02
Ulli: You completely fail to understand the main principles contained in my posts or indeed the admin posts annd others. Therefore I certainly will not waste any more of my time even attempting to convince you, just as I would never waste any of my time trying to teach my dogs to read. Don't be too disappointed, the human race has huge variations in intellect, so naturallly many others will also fail to grasp the principles so clearly explained by several posts regarding speculation, assumptions and hearsay etc.
The SV decisions have NOT altered my views expressed in my previous posts in any way whatsoever. I absolutely guarantee that.
I had the decency and good principles to await the SV authoritive decision concerning this matter. I was absolutely correct.
The SV decisions have NOT altered my views expressed in my previous posts in any way whatsoever. I absolutely guarantee that.
I had the decency and good principles to await the SV authoritive decision concerning this matter. I was absolutely correct.
by Oskar1 on 05 February 2012 - 22:02
Dear David,
It is absolutely helarious to see you wiggle - simply priceless !
Where was Jan's statemenet an "assumption" that the kennel "Team Marlboro" should loose the placing - it was not an assumption, it was the only consequence that was in the book - if one knows the rule - why would he have to wait for the SV to come to that very same conclusion ?
But anyhow, I will leave it at that and before I go to bed, I will read David's post at least 2 more times - I really dont want to go to sleep without fully comprehend what the "wise guy" had to tell me !!
You all take care.
Ulli
It is absolutely helarious to see you wiggle - simply priceless !
Where was Jan's statemenet an "assumption" that the kennel "Team Marlboro" should loose the placing - it was not an assumption, it was the only consequence that was in the book - if one knows the rule - why would he have to wait for the SV to come to that very same conclusion ?
But anyhow, I will leave it at that and before I go to bed, I will read David's post at least 2 more times - I really dont want to go to sleep without fully comprehend what the "wise guy" had to tell me !!
You all take care.
Ulli
by Abby Normal on 06 February 2012 - 00:02
Harley is living proof that dogs with inferior health results are bred from in other countries. We all know it happens, it's hardly a revelation.
Few countries have the strict mandatory requirements that the SV have. Even then people lie and cheat to get around them. What hope for the breed?
by allanf on 06 February 2012 - 02:02
With regard to the SV and the alleged fraud, it is possible that, in the end, no-one is held accountable for "Jaguar" wrongly obtaining a "normal" elbow rating in Germany, and the truth may never be known - who did what, when, where and how? This can often be the outcome where the individuals involved are simply following "established procedure" be it corrupt or otherwise.
by Videx on 06 February 2012 - 10:02
Professional Interpretation by betranslated.de
the process of the revocation of the show rating for the dog „Team Marlboro Jaguar“ the rating of the „Team Marlboro“ kennel group (9th place) has to be revoked for formal reasons.
In contrast to publications stating otherwise, the dog „Team Marlboro Harley“ is not registered in the German stud book and thus cannot be used for breeding under the rules and regulations of the Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV) e.V.
There is no reason to withdraw the show rating awarded on the Bundessiegerzuchtschau, since the dog has fulfilled all formalities. The judge for this class, Mr. Lutz Wischalla has stated that this dog would not have received a top rating if the true status of his sire would have been known.
Sincerely yours
SV-Hauptgeschäftsstelle
(SV-head office)
the process of the revocation of the show rating for the dog „Team Marlboro Jaguar“ the rating of the „Team Marlboro“ kennel group (9th place) has to be revoked for formal reasons.
In contrast to publications stating otherwise, the dog „Team Marlboro Harley“ is not registered in the German stud book and thus cannot be used for breeding under the rules and regulations of the Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV) e.V.
There is no reason to withdraw the show rating awarded on the Bundessiegerzuchtschau, since the dog has fulfilled all formalities. The judge for this class, Mr. Lutz Wischalla has stated that this dog would not have received a top rating if the true status of his sire would have been known.
Sincerely yours
SV-Hauptgeschäftsstelle
(SV-head office)
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