I like American show bloodlines. Crosses anyone? - Page 12

I think I'd better leave this thread...or I'll be in BIG trouble!

Believe me, that's a GOOD photo compared to most!  (Checks bulging 'Ugly Dog' file, which wouldn't be nearly so large if people knew how to photograph dogs.)

Most dogs are shown on a tight leash, which distorts their conformation, and doesn't let them move freely.
A lot of people do not know how to stack a dog, let alone what good movement looks like.
The current trend in German SL seems to be that the exaggerated goose-stepping photos are pretty, and people don't know a GSD isn't supposed to move like a hackney horse....
A lot of people barely know how to work a camera, let alone how to take a good photo....
shall I continue?

Rick,

Thanks for your input. The world of the AKC is quite different. Some comments that came out in the seminar and were alluded to on this board is that the German dogs do not have the health screening the American dogs do. The more I pick up on, the more I think there's been a lot of misinformation fed both sides.

Some other differences. AKC rings the pedigrees are not looked at. ( I think it's to not disclose information that could influence a decision) German ring pedigrees are studied. Double handling is permitted in the German ring. In the American ring,,,double handling falls into an interesting phenomenon. It doesn't exist,,,but it does. Owners try to do what they can to double without it being blantent. It's kind of a denail thing.

As the whole AKC adventure has ping ponged around in my head. I've developed some scenarios. Right now the AKC and German dogs are split. Separate shows for the most part. I think this show was an exception.

What would happen if this show was a catalyst? Attendance in the AKC ring is down. Attendance in the SV shows seems to be about double but they are few and far between. What would happen if the German dogs started to do well in the AKC ring? The families with the puppies go to the AKC show that's an hour drive. Sis handles little Max in the ring and they get a ribbon. They spent a few hours washing Max, paid a 25.00 entry fee on line with no paperwork issues. If you have the information you're done. Pack up the family car and head to the show for an afternoon with Max and the family. For less than a hundred dollars you get 95% of the German show experience. It's a good value.

If the German entries are there and they do well, the people attend the shows. The club does well, the judges create a demand and the system is functional. The gap between the shortcomings of both systems is closed. Probably a pipe dream but the components are there, in place, and ready to go to work.

AKC breeders going German something to be skeptical about? How's that? Did they just see the light? I met three judges at the show that have German dogs and there was at least one breeder in the transitional stage. How is that a bad thing?

We can use the breeder in NY as an example of a switch program. Crossed over to the German dogs. Paid attention to what was being bred in Germany. Applied their knowledge and bought some stock. The stock did well. A few VA placings. Speaking of working ability....did anyone see their male at the NASS in Statesville? This dogs ears were pinned 100% until he was through the sleeve. There was no doubt, no hesitation, the dog did not gather, 100% commitment to what they knew would appear. I've seen it 3 times in a show dog and this dog was 1 of 3.

Changed lines, bought good dogs, participated in the breed, participated in the shows, even brought a few people along. What's there to be skeptical about? What about the other AKC judges that once had or still have American dogs. They switched and have some of the best German dogs in the country, even the world. What's there to be skeptical about? I would think those that supported the German style dog would just figure they saw the light.

Dog1, it's a really nice scenario, and I would love to see it come to pass!

But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting! 

You've given me reason to hope, though!

Rik, it's my understanding that in a balanced trot, the diagonal fore and hind limbs are doing the same thing at the same time, as in this photo of Bodo. I very rarely see this in current photos of German SL, and in the videos (and in real life) the limbs are moving too fast to be able to tell.

In photos, it is hard to tell what the handler is doing, but Bodo does look to be on a fairly tight leash here, and there's not a trace of a goose-step. There's also the fact the goose-stepping dog photos are a new trend over the last few years. Something has changed, either in the way the dogs are being handled, their conformation, or (most likely) both.

Sunsilver....love the links to photos!!

This comment made my day:

"BTw, the reason Fred is cracking up in the one photo is when he asked the boy to show him the dog's teeth, the boy bared his own teeth in a toothy grin (just as he's doing in the photo where he's holding his tropy!)"

Too FUNNY!!!!!!  That comment sure did make me smile!! 

I also agree with you about reasons why people are leaving the AKC show ring with GSDs. Here are my reasons:

1) Type of dog usually required to win is not everyone's "taste" of dog

2) The show ring is 99.9% dominated by professional handlers

3) Unlike UKC or even other breeds, the AKC Show ring unoffiicially requires dogs to gait in front which is overwhelming for someone new to showing to teach their dog. I know I haven't, personally, figured out how to do it without having someone else to double handle (not allowed in AKC but is allowed in specialty) and while working alone.

4) So, because showing is so expenisve why flush money away unless your dog is the right type; is handled by a professional; and can gait beautifully in front!!!

I didn't have a lot of trouble getting Star to gait in front. She naturally wants to be ahead, and getting her to heel nicely beside me has been a real PITA. However, the CKC tends to hold its shows indoors even when it's summer and there is a perfectly good outdoor venue available. I find them crowded and noisy and that stresses me out, and I'm sure it stresses the dogs too.

At the Shiloh shows, generally there's a large canopied area where everyone hangs out while waiting their turn. Camping is usually available on site, and you can go to your trailer and chill between classes. MUCH more relaxed!

Maybe I've just been to the wrong shows...

Sunsilver, You're lucky!! My pup will only gait in front if she is behind other dogs!! Otherwise, she gaits by my side. Interestingly, the foundation of our heel is finally coming together and I am thrilled with her progress)! LOL  I never thought to put the two together!!

Yes, UKC in my area is mostly outdoors with trailer hookups and AKC is mostly indoors.

I am curious...the Canadian GSD doesn't look as extreme. I have seen quite a few Am. GSDs that could not finish in AKC easily finish CKC. Is my obseravtion incorrect? 


Sara

hello Randy, I don't think there is anything wrong with folks making a switch. The judges mentioned at this show have done well and are all in, so to speak. Training, titles, health checks. The whole 9 yards. One of them owns one of the higher rated VA dogs in Germany and hopefully is coming to the U.S after the sieger.

The ones I would be skeptical about are those coming to realize the market and price the German pups go for.

I do know the misconceptions about the German dogs. I went to Aachen in 2008, having never seen a German type show or a German s/l dog. I didn't even know that there was a w/l s/l divide. I was expecting ugly dogs, no fronts or rears, with all bowed backs, but all would be "real" GSD because they had a sch. title. Pretty naive I know, but I don't think I was that out of touch with what others in the U.S. thought or maybe some still think.

I too hope that dog comes to America, Rik.

Smiley, I gotta tell you that after a pro handler said I didn't have a prayer of putting a championship on Star, I drifted away from the GSDCC, and dropped my membership. The real kicker was when she x-rayed as mildly dysplastic in one hip at age 2, despite 3 generaions of no dysplastic dogs in her pedigree.  I had her spayed, and just let the whole conformation thing drop.

From what I've seen in the past, there's not a lot of difference, though maybe that's changing. (Digs out the Dogs in Canada annual puppy issue, and hunts up the German Shepherd pages....)

Dog1, do the AKC people really think that their dogs have better health screening than the German dogs?????? That is amazing to me. I would also add that the breeder in NY who "switched over" bred some horrible AM SL dogs. Sure, he had a few "winners". But a whole lot more dysplastic dogs and a "puppy lemon law lawsuit" because of his breeding. Then he became an AKC judge. A shining example of what is wrong with the Am SL breeder and the AKC.