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by patrick on 20 January 2009 - 11:01
Sue, I firmly believe the K.C. dont want a split, Its not in their interest, and to ask them to do a census and any other work required which may lead to them shooting themselves in their own foot. They have demonstrated their contempt for people in our breed many times, they were asked to remove the foto of an Alastian from the K.C. statement before it went out. Did they listen to the request, No! There is no chance you will get them to do expensive research which could lead to something that will not only cost them a great deal of money, and also create a great deal of unrest in other breeds that may develope a massive problem for them. I agree with you, there is no need to fight and sqabble over individual beliefs on how the breed should develope, I'm happy to hear, and see an Alsatianist follow their dream, and enjoy their hobby the way they want to. That's why the breed will never unite again unless one side gives in, and we know that will never happen. So let's stop wasteing time, that we havn't got! and move towards taking the breed the way we want to. Once people say yes!!! to a break away and the wheels start moving, we will all feel better, motivated, determined,revitalised,and satisfied, like coming out of a nice hot shower! You will see a new mood within people, like they have just come into the breed! Sue do you remember that feeling,and I'm sure the Alastianist will be coming out of a similar shower. We all know deep down it's the way to go. The only regret is it should have happened 25 years ago. Bill Owen.
by reason on 20 January 2009 - 11:01
Bill
An excellent post,but the big but it means we all have to unite that is, GSDL,BAGSD and BC CAN YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING!
An excellent post,but the big but it means we all have to unite that is, GSDL,BAGSD and BC CAN YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING!
by Videx on 20 January 2009 - 11:01
Bill: A truly inspirational post, and so true. Thank you for encapsulating the huge benefits of a split between the GSD and the Alsatian. That is the clear and absolutely priority.
by missbeeb on 20 January 2009 - 11:01
Reason, If they have the interest of the Breed at heart, they'll be able to put personalities etc to one side... for the greater good and all that!
I'm off for a shower a Bill's!
I'm all for... let's go now!
by funky munky on 20 January 2009 - 12:01
Bill Owen's post is excellent never a truer word was spoken, it is time to take action now. Lets get the wheels in motion guys, as John Wayne said " we are burning daylight", so lets move. I do not want to be reading the same old comments in another 10 years, now is the time!!!! liz
by Videx on 20 January 2009 - 12:01
I call on the GSD Breed Council and the BAGSD and The GSD League - "THE GSD PARTNERSHIP", to issue a joint statement on behalf of our breed, supporting a split between the GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG and the ALSATIAN.
THE GSD PARTNERSHIP should also seek an urgent meeting with the Kennel Club to agree the split as soon as possible.
Rejection of a split by the Kennel Club, should then lead to very serious consideration of a breakaway from the Kennel Club.
THE GSD PARTNERSHIP should also seek an urgent meeting with the Kennel Club to agree the split as soon as possible.
Rejection of a split by the Kennel Club, should then lead to very serious consideration of a breakaway from the Kennel Club.
by patrick on 20 January 2009 - 13:01
Reason, I certainly can! If we take away the reasons for people to fight and squabble we can then drive down the same road. When we split, that takes the Alsatianist out of the frame, no more confrontation! BAGS and the Leauge have very similar aims, The same type of shepherds, they both encourage working their dogs, and I dont think there is a problem with the working side of each club, again pure working people may not care what their dogs look like, as long as they do the job in hand. We should aplaud that, and not try to force people into having certain types of dogs. I think the Leauge and Bags can work together with the same aims. That leaves the B.C. Remember the name COUNCIL is nothing more than a body for the benefit of the clubs within it. The majority of the clubs favour German Shepherds, so the council is there to do the bidding on behalf of the clubs and for no other reason. So I dont see a problem how the three sections should behave with one another. If the council members dont like it, CHANGE them, remember they are elected members and are there to serve. If that fails, " they can use my shower" if they need further treatment, I also have a jacuzzi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Bill Owen
by funky munky on 20 January 2009 - 13:01
I agree with Mr Payne's post 100%, Liz
by tigermouse on 20 January 2009 - 14:01
Personally I 100% agree with Videx, the split IMO is a must.
I am not a fan of the Alsatian in the least....they do have a use... coffee tables with tails n teeth
gsm44 - im not too keen on the idea of working lines being split, as breeders like myself are aiming for the best of both worlds:)
Bill - excellent posts:)
I did ask the KC why that pic is on the breed standard, and the reply I got was "this is the interim standard and we haven't looked at the picture yet"...... well I wish they would!!! lol.
I am not a fan of the Alsatian in the least....they do have a use... coffee tables with tails n teeth
gsm44 - im not too keen on the idea of working lines being split, as breeders like myself are aiming for the best of both worlds:)
Bill - excellent posts:)
I did ask the KC why that pic is on the breed standard, and the reply I got was "this is the interim standard and we haven't looked at the picture yet"...... well I wish they would!!! lol.
by Uglydog on 20 January 2009 - 14:01
It is NOT Possible to have the 'best of both worlds'
Working dogs is about performance breeding, not conformation shows and pretty ribbons.
If people really care about their dogs, they'll sacrifice their egos for the sake of the breed.
Max V Stephanitz-Breed Founder, 1925, PP 380-381.
"The breeding of shepherd dogs is the breeding of working dogs; and this must always be the aim, or we shall cease to produce shepherd dogs....
In order to have any chances of success at Exhibitions, breeding must be effected on a large scale; which can only be done in a regular Kennel. But breeding on a large scale and in a Kennel is the ruin of all sound shepherd dog breeding.
'Breeding in quantities must always become a curse to the breeder, because it leads him along the wrong path and deprives him of all real joy in his breeding.
Finally, it leads - and this is a further and very real danger for breeder and for the race - to breeding for business considerations only. It follows from the name, that this has nothing more to do with the dog-lover, or with the utility of the dog-race, and not even with Sport, which indeed has only been too often advanced as a cloak for such practices.
When it comes to breeding for business - which is never effected by dealers, at least not by official dealers -, the dog is only a business commodity and nothing more, and is bred and treated as such. There again, we encounter another danger for the race. The dog is no longer bred from the point of view of his services to the race, but only because he has a certain market value. In other words, the direction of the breed is influenced no longer by the experts, but by the buyers.
The work of breeding service dogs must, first and foremost, be the work of dog lovers... The dog lover in his breeding aspires after no material and external advantage.
He allows himself to be contented with the fact that association with noble, beautiful and gifted creatures, the observation of the phenomena of their lives, and the examination of all that happens in their breedings afford him a whole cycle of pure joys and contentment, and allow him to penetrate further into the secrets and the mysteries of Nature.
These joys will repay him, (who indulges his fancy without self-seeking,) for all the sacrifices in money, time and trouble, and even for all failures and disillusions."
Dog-breeding must be the work of a dog lover, and cannot be a profession, as is the case with other animals, and a means of acquiring bread and butter. If it once becomes that, then it will be dog-dealing that has nothing more to do with serious dog breeding, but on the other hand, too often has to do with the law. '
Working dogs is about performance breeding, not conformation shows and pretty ribbons.
If people really care about their dogs, they'll sacrifice their egos for the sake of the breed.
Max V Stephanitz-Breed Founder, 1925, PP 380-381.
"The breeding of shepherd dogs is the breeding of working dogs; and this must always be the aim, or we shall cease to produce shepherd dogs....
In order to have any chances of success at Exhibitions, breeding must be effected on a large scale; which can only be done in a regular Kennel. But breeding on a large scale and in a Kennel is the ruin of all sound shepherd dog breeding.
'Breeding in quantities must always become a curse to the breeder, because it leads him along the wrong path and deprives him of all real joy in his breeding.
Finally, it leads - and this is a further and very real danger for breeder and for the race - to breeding for business considerations only. It follows from the name, that this has nothing more to do with the dog-lover, or with the utility of the dog-race, and not even with Sport, which indeed has only been too often advanced as a cloak for such practices.
When it comes to breeding for business - which is never effected by dealers, at least not by official dealers -, the dog is only a business commodity and nothing more, and is bred and treated as such. There again, we encounter another danger for the race. The dog is no longer bred from the point of view of his services to the race, but only because he has a certain market value. In other words, the direction of the breed is influenced no longer by the experts, but by the buyers.
The work of breeding service dogs must, first and foremost, be the work of dog lovers... The dog lover in his breeding aspires after no material and external advantage.
He allows himself to be contented with the fact that association with noble, beautiful and gifted creatures, the observation of the phenomena of their lives, and the examination of all that happens in their breedings afford him a whole cycle of pure joys and contentment, and allow him to penetrate further into the secrets and the mysteries of Nature.
These joys will repay him, (who indulges his fancy without self-seeking,) for all the sacrifices in money, time and trouble, and even for all failures and disillusions."
Dog-breeding must be the work of a dog lover, and cannot be a profession, as is the case with other animals, and a means of acquiring bread and butter. If it once becomes that, then it will be dog-dealing that has nothing more to do with serious dog breeding, but on the other hand, too often has to do with the law. '
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