This is a placeholder text
Group text
by allanf on 04 February 2012 - 16:02
Silbersee,
You said:
Yes, the SV has a lot of influence in (almost) "every nook and cranny around the globe" but only through breeders, sports enthusiasts, show exhibitors and serious dog/puppy buyers. Not through legality and regulations! Where are you from? The UK, the U.S., Australia? Are the breeders in the UK or Australia bound to title and breed survey deogs (besides health screenings) before they can be bred? Well, in Germany you would have to. In most European countries, there are at least health screening requirements, not so in the U.S. and in plenty of other countries. Yet, the SV still has an influence but not a mandatory one. I don't know what else to write to make people like you understand.
I'm sorry but I don't follow your argument, nor can I figure out what you would like me to understand. Does the SV have some influence internationally, or can we safely ignore its goings on, knowing that it has a lot of influence but only through breeders, sports enthusiasts, show exhibitors and serious dog/puppy buyers? Does that not sound like enough influence to make you concerned about whether it is acting in the best interests of the entire GSD community? Don't doubt that I can see the influence of the SV even in my remote corner of the globe. If the SV is incapable of acknowledging it's role in the world, and chooses to simply act in the interests of some elite group of friends, then it should recognize its failings and disband.
I have no interest in any dog called Harley, except to say that if there is a calculated risk that some particular dog could pass on ED to his progeny, then everything possible should be done to prevent him from producing progeny. Simple as that.
by Silbersee on 04 February 2012 - 18:02
by Abby Normal on 04 February 2012 - 19:02
Like anything on the internet, one has to take responsibility as to what one believes on the internet. I think generally people here are adult enough to make their own judgement. We have to wait to see what the final outcome of this debacle will be -whatever that may be, it is a disaster for the breed.
What I think can be taken is fact is that fraud has been committed. Who was involved or is responsible is yet to be published as a result of the investigation. What is far more worrying IMO is that the potential clamour to use this dog (Harley) in breeding programmes is potentially introducing a debilitating health problem into what could be numerous lines. Doesn't matter how good his elbows are, we know that these problems can come down the line and reappear. Ethically Jaguar should never have been bred from whatever his country of origins 'regulations'. The fact that Harley achieved such a prestigious award at the Sieger Show will have made him much sought after to introduce into breeding programmes. Let's hope he hasn't been used too much already.
I feel that people who may have been about to use him deserved to be alerted to a potential problem. For those who have already done so, imagine how they must feel - not only about whether his progeny will be SV papered, but about whether their puppies will inherit ED. Possibly some have laid all their hopes for building a future breeding line on him.
It's a despicable act that took place, and greed is surely killing this breed.
by Jantie on 05 February 2012 - 09:02
Team Marlboro has now officially lost its placement at the Siegerschau in Nürnberg 2011.
And Harley will NOT stud, he is not even registered yet IN the breeding book of the SV,
and I daresay, he will not be entered after the attempted fraud with his father.
by allanf on 05 February 2012 - 13:02
Thanks for the update Jantie. It's a step in the right direction.
Silbersee,
You said:
| Oky doky, allanf. It is quite alright that you don't follow my argument. Let's just leave it at that. Why should you really be interested in some dog named Harley after all.From your point of view, that is perfectly understandable. :-D |
Nevertheless, I gather from your latter statements that there is a strong "fan-club" mentality surrounding the SV and its activities. That is something I hadn't really envisaged, and there is certainly nothing wrong with followers banding together, swapping stories and gossip, magazines full of glossy pics and gushing reviews, cheer squads, etc, etc. Apologies to you and all the other great fans of Hurley for my lack of interest in these things.
The great danger to the breed is if these "fan clubs" or similar individuals come to exert undue influence on the SV and other governing bodies whose primary role is to remain impartial to the pressures from outside individuals. It is not hard to see how things can become corrupt.
As an example of the SV altering a decision, Silbersee said (10 Feb 2008; http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=168173&pagen=3):
|
... The same thing happened to me and a friend of mine. We co-owned a dog together and had her hips xrayed here in the U.S. at 1 year of age. One copy was sent to the OFA for prelims and came back as "good". The other copy was forwarded to the SV and came back as "a-noch zugelassen". We protested that with the OFA's written report. The SV allowed us to resubmit a new xray when the dog was over in Germany for her titles. They then changed the rating to "a-fast normal". So, you might be able to protest your results as well. |
by Abby Normal on 05 February 2012 - 13:02
Thanks for the update and clarification. It is good to know that Harley will not stud (at least under SV rules). Whether he is used in other countries where mandatory restrictions are not in place remains to be seen. Ethically I believe that he shouldn't with the health problems behind him, but ethics disappeared from the world of dog breeding a long time ago it seems to me.
by Videx on 05 February 2012 - 13:02
Information des Zuchtbuchamtes (02/12)
Im Zuge der Aberkennung der Zuchtbewertung für den Rüden „Team Marlboro Jaguar“ muss die auf der letztjährigen Bundessiegerzuchtschau erreichte Zuchtgruppenbewertung des Zwingers „Team Marlboro“ (Platz 9) aus formalen Gründen aberkannt werden.
Entgegen anderslautenden Veröffentlichungen ist der Rüde „Team Marlboro Harley“ nicht in das Zuchtbuch des SV eingetragen und kann aus diesem Grund im Bereich des Vereins für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV) e.V. auch nicht zur Zucht eingesetzt werden.
Für die Aberkennung der auf der Bundessiegerzuchtschau erreichten Zuchtbewertung „SG“ ist keine Grundlage gegeben, da der Hund alle formalen Voraussetzungen erfüllt hat. Seitens des amtierenden Richters, Herrn Lutz Wischalla, wurde in diesem Zusammenhang erklärt, dass er dem Rüden, wäre ihm der wahre Befund des Vaterrüden bekannt gewesen, keine Platzierung in der Spitzengruppe der Klasse gegeben hätte.
Ihre
SV-Hauptgeschäftsstelle
by Abby Normal on 05 February 2012 - 14:02
by Oskar1 on 05 February 2012 - 16:02
by GSD Admin on 05 February 2012 - 16:02
Jantie is not always right folks, he accused me of being a member here selling dogs because I had edited an ad and due to a glitch Jantie proclaimed I was some person in Germany and blah blah blah. See I have a hard time believing Jantie because of what he did to me and some innocent person who I just happened to edit their ad. Go ahead slap Jantie on the back but I have witnessed Jantie's assumptions presented as facts and as far as I am concerned Janties record of assumption is not anywhere near 100%. So, Jantie is not always right and assumptions should never be put on the web as fact. Whether they turn out true or not.
But, hey if you guys want assumptions and not facts, you have at it because I have first hand knowledge of Janties investigations and how he jumps to conclusions. After all he could not tell me from someone in Germany.
Having a few right assumptions does not make up for the times Jantie is wrong.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
