Von Erzengel Z littler Puppy with Major Genetic Defects - Page 11

Well said, Debbie.

-Sue

I have had plenty of response privately from other breeders who do their best to make a nice pup and have had these kinds of clients.

I will refund this woman's money as I have continually offerd, but ONLY if I have this pup.  I have to see what is going on.  If this is all true (well, it fluctuates from day to day as to what the problem(s) is/are) then I want to have this pup examined.

I have never said this dog will be euthanized, as I have not seen it.

That is the end of that!

malinda

Malinda,

I had a pup that was returned (thank goodness) to me from the NE at 4 months for incontinence.  The owner's vet said that the dog produced crystals in her urine and that this was genetic.  Yes, it was very important to me that the pup was returned for evaluation.  I had a sterile urinalysis done on the dog, and she had a bad bacteria (pseudanomas).  It was treated and rechecked.  After hips/elbows were X-rayed, I rehomed the pup at 6 months.  I wanted the pup back for many reasons 1) I produced it and felt responsible 2) I needed to know if this "formation of crystals" in the urine was genetic or not because I owned both breeding partners. 

The pup was rehomed in my geographic area so that if anything should ever come up again, I could see for myself.  At 18 months she is a happy and healthy young adult.  The owner's feelings were very hurt, especially in learning that the dog had something that was easily treatable.  She was in actual fact very angry at me wheras her anger should have been directed to her vet.  But I also was not about to even consider returning this pup to the original owner.  The experience was not one I wanted to repeat.  I refunded the pup in full.

First of all,  I don't like seeing any breeder bashed.  As stated earlier, I find this whole dilema very sad.  Using ripoffreports turns my stomach.  Sorry..that's how I feel. I've always purchased a pup with the attitude anything can happen genetically and it's a gamble.  The money I laid out was gone.  Contracts.........not my main concern. They only irritate me.

With that being said, was the pup at 8 weeks shipped being underweight.  If this was the case, it was entirely foolish and a bad decision on the breeder's part. Underweight was a clear sign of possible potential health problems.  You can't take a chance and hope for possible 'catch up' with it's siblings. (28 lbs at 9 months?). The pup should have stayed with the breeder so his growth and development could have been properly evaluated.  If dwarfism is now being discussed......it shouldn't automatically mean ending the pup's life.  There can still be quality of life.  Mouth formation, hips, elbows?  All a concern.  I don't know the buyer and her capacity to deal with any underlying problems.  I certainly don't want to see a pup PTS, if not necessary.

This whole scenario has become a major problem for the breeder and the buyer. I hope the breeder didn't play catch-up, and I hope the buyer has done everything possible for the pup. The board members read the posts.......make judgments......and reply. I just feel bad for the pup.

The pup was not underweight when he was shipped. 

The dwarfism was quickly disspelled and recanted by the buyer

I guess you  are not reading the entire posts before you jump on the band wagon of "poor puppy and poor puppy buyer".

We offered her money back EIGHT TIMES. One with in 2 days!

She refuses.

Van Munchings by proxy comes to mind.

She just sent me a couple of xrays which have been so poorly shot or photo shopped that you can't tell anything.

I just want the puppy back and give her her money.  Now, ask yourself, "why didn't she just take us up on that"?

malinda

Well, if you offered to return the money and allow them to keep the dog, I'm not sure what else you can do. Or if she signed a contract stating the puppy would be returned prior to resititution being made, then you have done all you can.

My problem with requiring the return of any dog is that most owners are not going to want to do that and it's a way that any breeder can easily wiggle out of making good on a dog.  Odds are most are going to keep the dog and eat the loss. I know many GSD breeders have that stipulation in their contract. Why not just say - dog will be neutered, returned to breeder  at owners/breeder's expense or PTS as agreed upon by all involved parties.  If I bred this dog and IF he did have all the health issues they are claiming I'd be only too happy to refund the full purchase price and allow them to keep the dog as well. A written vet report along with copies of the hip xrays and photos would be sufficient  evidence for me to accept that the dog truly does have all the health problems they claim he does. I would only insist on having the dog returned if the buyer could not provide me with a vet statement that satisfied me, copies of the hip xrays and photos or if they no longer wanted him. That might not be best for the owner or the breeder, but it's best for the dog.

If she is going to PTS why not return him?

malinda

"I would not take this vet's word for anything, since from the get go, he told the owner it was not a german shepherd because he had never seen this color before. Truth be told, there really are some vets out there that do not know anything about the german shepherd breed and are idiots. "    thats true Debbie

And what if the worsening of the dogs case was due to Medical malpractice..??? Most unexperienced Vets are just using the genetic issue to experiment on the poor pup saying anyway...the dog will be put down... Ms. Julien deserves to get the pup back dead or alive and have it post-mortem examine if there was medical malpractice...

Malinda, I have to say I'm shocked you would ask such a question. If this were my dog I would never return him to you.  Not because I think you are a bad person or a bad breeder, I don't know you or your dogs.  I would want to hold him close to me when he is PTS stroking him and soothing him hoping he knew he was loved when he died. It's the least very we can do for our animals.  His family is his life. Let  him die with them at his side, you are his breeder but a relative stranger now.  

If you don't trust the vet they are using, then require a second opinion and another hip xray.  There must be a good vet somewhere in Texas or a vet school? Ask for an postmortem if you feel it's necessary.

Blitzen... the breeder still owns the dog and will be paying for the pup dead or alive as long as the pup gets back to the breeder to asses the pups horrible case...And I would definitely ask for second opinion if the poor pup was experimented upon by the Vets from the buyers area... I seldom trust Vets nowadays (only get to them for their license and signatures)... I had a litter of pups who died after having already their 3rd DHLPP shot from a licensed Vet.... Imagine having to loose half of the litter... In my recent litters I'm the one giving the initial shot of DHLPP just to have my pups protected even at least once from me...the rest of the shots are done by Vets...