The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 10

" Modified" instinctive behavior.....is it (the instinct) modified by training and then passed on in the modified version AFTER, AFTER many generations of training ( which is geared towards modifying the instinct)?

Instinct can be modified by environment and it does not take a human to modify animal behavior.  The arrogance and stupidity of humans is breath taking in the scope and depths that it can project human attributes or lack thereof as a measurement of intelligence or lack of intelligence.  Crows use tools, have a language, teach their offspring about dangerous people, and can pass knowledge between generations or if you wish have an oral history.  Dogs, cats, and many other animals have destroyed the arrogant scientist who say only primates can do these tasks as they have been proven wrong.  It is the stupidity of humans that has been proven and our inability to see other animals as intelligent beings is the proof positive of our stupidity.  We now know that many animals use tools and can pass this knowledge on to the next generation.  It is not instinct, it is learned knowledge copied and passed between individuals and passed between generations.  The Biblical concept of dominion seems to be wishful thinking by the writers of the Bible and other religious texts expousing man's superiority over animals and our right to use and abuse the animals that we should be protecting from ourselves.

Joan,

Yes instinct can be modified by training. No the training can not be passed on to later generations. There is research going on showing how environment can cause changes in DNA. It is not yet known how this affects genes and genetics.

Boo said:

"have destroyed the arrogant scientist who say only primates can do these tasks"

Boo can you show an instance where a scientist has been dissapointed in discovering the learning abilities of the organisms they study?

 

Mike

here is some of the general science in laymen's terms;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_epigenetics

 

 

Agree, Mike, the training is not passed on, but the selection for the desired modifiable instincts influences what's inherited.
BTW, isn't training, environment?

Bub, I was talking about hunting/stalking instinct used in herding and in pointing dogs.

"selection for the desired modifiable instincts influences what's inherited"

 

Yep I agree.

Training = environment? Yes I agree with that too-and as I said there is research (the epigenetics that vk referenced) that shows

how environment can cause changes in DNA. I think the jury is still out on if these changes are heritable changes in genes. It will be 

an interesting field of study to follow.

 

Mike

 

 

Wrong genetics you can,t repair with training   !!!  

 

Its the dumb  and bad selecting dogs and litters  from the human who created  bad quality of GSD today.

People who are playing for GOD  but  they don,t know what they are doing they think knowing better

than mother nature.........................and look where we are always the human who destroy nature.

 

 

 

A query for those who have bred one or more litters of GSD's. Those who have never bred a litter of GSD's or who don't even own a GSD, need not respond please.

1. What was your criteria for determining the breed worthiness of the sire/s and dam/s of your litter/s?

2. How many generations of your own breeding exists and what have those dogs accomplished in the big picture?

 

 

 

 

Part of the reason for th decline, inadvertently selecting for absence of instincts which leads to useless dogs for work.

Bubba, the word the King James version translates as 'dominion' actually means, in the original language something much closer to  'stewardship'.

Just sayin'....I think He would be pretty disappointed with our version of 'stewardship'!