Where are Old style lines in America still available? - Page 10

When you No, AS you go about reading your books today, I invite you to look at the dogs / pedigrees / and progeny pictures as you read. This is really fun, and you pick up on more than if you only had one or the other at a time. :)
 

I have been privledged to be around GSDs and dog sports for close to 40 years now. I have worked with many breeds in IPO/Schutzhund besides my favorite the GSD. I have seen titled American bred dogs from the Lance of Fran-jo inbreedings, and more of these types that could have done the sport but owner had not been able to committ to the program. That being said when handlers of the American dogs become interested in sport or work they gravitate to the dogs from Europe. The pull would be near 100%. It is much easier to get a specimen from the non/lance lines for training that they all go away from the lance lines for GSDs. There is the same energy now towards the Mali breed over the GSD. You can read about that on every third thread here. I do not believe it is as dire as some want us to believe but if the push is for a better GSD, I am all for it. 

DenWolf, who is the Mary you refer to?

Mary also did that..  and looked at the hip laxity (pennhip style) in her early dogs.. 
 

"Lance of Fran-Jo" was a freak of nature, admittedly so by the very show dog people who used it..
I never saw anything linebred out of that dog that wasn't the epitome of what a working dog should NOT be.. 
The more it was used/overused, the more "set" that revolting type became.
I worked my own lance linebred freak in all venues available of the time.. and while it appeared to work well, the polar opposite was actually true.
My dislike for it and its influence on flushing the GSD in America completely down the toilet is my very strong opinion, so don't be offended.


Sun, the Mary I refer to is Mary Coppage of Spezialblut GSD, 1980's and forward era... She imported Neumann's Jim, and had an American CH put on the dog.  I don't believe either is breeding anymore (Dr Graves was elderly back then) but the lines remain, here and there, to be discovered by those who seek.

I did find the article about Trommel.  GSD quarterly, circa 1996.
I don't think reprinting is allowed, but I can summarize detail of interest.. if asked.

I believe a picture would be allowed, as it was given to the magazine by the Graves.. 

Lineage, THIS is the correct picture for Dirk.. if you would replace it into the dog's pedigree.. or I can try.



 

In response to gsdstudent:
I agree that the GSD lines are still there, it is the people that concern me.
A year or so ago German Shepherds won the KNPV championship, which
was a good reminder for the Malinois people that nothing is given, they must
always work to pass onwhat they have received.
But more importantly, it is a small but very important demonstration that
there is nothing standing in the way of the GSDexcept his own
advocates.
My opinion is that the problems are, in order of importance, the SV leadership
and the German propensity to do everything by regulation and direction
from on high.
Great working dogs are bred by men with fire in their belly, uncompromising
determination to bred dogs to their own satisfaction. This is descriptive
of many Malinois and GSD breeders of the past, but is in danger.
Right now what I see is German Shepherd breeding to be only "good enough"
in character and fighting drive. But IPO is not now a criteria of real excellence,
and breeding just because you can get it through an IPO is breeding only
to be good enough not to be excellent.

The German Shepherd working community needs to cast aside the
spirit of the SV and the FCI, which may not have gotten rid of the stick
this time but will in the end, and follow the lead of the hard core working
breeders.

If they compete head to head with the Malinois, then we will all have
reason for hope.

"We have met the enemy, and it is us''  Who said it?  The politically active people should not be the only ones running our breed. Part of the ''fire in the belly'' has to be aimed at making better use of the organizations which ruin the breed. or did I mean run the breed? 

We need more breeders like Koos Hassing. Unfortunately, Koos isn't German, or maybe the SV would listen to him more carefully!

Oh, and he breeds those ugly sable working line dogs...

http://www.prlog.org/10507451-word-from-mr-koos-hassing-tiekerhook-german-shepherd-kennel-holland-part-one.html
 

Thanks! Great read...where is part 2!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Sunsilver. Wow!!! I mean WOW!! I just finished part 3. The gears in my mind are already starting to turn. So, if I just spout things right now it's because I am just thinking out loud.  Here I thought my personal goal was to have a V rating and a KKL. Now, I am starting to understand what Paul, Gustav, Hired Dog, Zdog, and other working proponents have been saying. It is starting to finally make sense. So, it looks like the true character of the german shepherd defined by his innate core-working ability-is being compromised. It seems that we need to maintain this working ability at all costs as that truly defines the breed. It is what "makes the german shepherd a german shepherd" and without it it is an abomination of breed standard.  But, where to test for this pure working ability if IPO trials are a joke. What other avenues are there? Are there other working dog groups that still test for pure working ability without political influence or compromise? Who are they? What is that thing mentioned in article called RSV?

Boy, these articles certianly gave me a lot to think about. What I am coming away with is this: To be a true german shepherd means that strong working ability must be inherent genetically in the dog and tested to maintain integrity of that ability. It doesn't mean they can't go on to be tracking dogs, service dogs, pets, showdogs...but they must have this strong and correct working ability that is defined by the very existence of their genetics. I need to ponder more.....but I feel like I just had an epiphany that is starting to make sense for me.

Sarah