9 Month Old GSD with Weak Hindlegs - Page 10

Hi Gautam I found this about Creon on the Epi4dogs website, which is interesting: CREON (available in Australia, Canada, Europe, South America, the UK & the U.S) these are enteric coated granules in capsules, do not break open and incubate on food as instructed for all other enzymes....although in some cases these capsules may be opened and sprinkled on top of the food- - if and only if- - served immediately, as long as the dog does not chew the granules. CREON is commonly used in many places outside the U.S. Existing CREON enzyme capsule products comes in 5, 10, 20 strengths and new strengths approved as of 2009 of 6, 12, 24 strengths are becoming more readily available. When initially treating an EPI dog, it is recommended to start with CREON 12 or CREON 10 which has 10,000 USP of Lipase, 37,500 USP of Protease, 33,200 USP of Amylase. The CREON the potency measurement comparison is as follows: CREON 10 Composition : 150 mg Pancreatin Amylase 8,000 PhEur units (BP Units) also equals 33,400 USP units Lipase 10,000 PhEur units (BP Units) also equals 10,000 USP units Protease 600 Ph Eur units (BP units) also equal 37,500 USP units CREON 25 Composition : 300 mg Pancreatin Amylase 18,000 PhEur units (BP Units) also equals 74,700 USP units Lipase 25,000 PhEur units (BP Units) also equals 25,000 USP units Protease 1,000 Ph Eur units (BP units) also equal 62,500 USP units If you are interested in purchasing CREON on-line..... one of our EPI FORUM members, Frank, put together a fabulous database on CREON including the brand name, website address, the cost of the CREON, shipping costs, and breakdown of price per capsule. This PDF is a wealth of information. Although these prices are as of April 2010 and may fluctuate with the exchange rate and/or price change.. it will give you a snapshot of price and availability. Please feel free to check it out. Click on: CREON pricing-3a.pdf From one of our epi4dogs members, Val, the difference between CREON and powdered or pilled enzymes is as follows: To put it in simple terms... Enteric enzymes like Creon or in UK Lypex have a coating that doesn't break down in stomach acid so the enzymes pass into the intestines where the bile breaks the coating and the enzyme digests the food INSIDE the dog. That is why the dog must not chew them, it breaks the coating and much of the enzymes are killed by the stomach acid. So, you must ensure that you give this WITH food, and that the dog simply swallows the capsule without chewing it (mine would do that if it was in a bowl of minced meat. It must also be stored below 25c, as this depletes the effectiveness of the enzyme activity, but not too cold like a fridge either. A cool larder or something similar may be best. I hope this helps until you can get your boy to the vet. What are you feeding him now. Did you weigh him and what does he weigh?

Sorry there are no paragraphs above. I put them in but they just won't be accepted! My comments are from 'So, you must ensure.....' at the end!

Hi Gautam:

This is where the vet comes in for his intimate knowledge of creon strengths.

My creon is Creon 10 and reads
Lipase 10,000
Amylase  8,000
Protease 600

this product is of porcine ( pig ) origin

I give Maya one capsule per one and a half cups of soaked kibble. The amount and strength of the creon is the vets call depending on the TLI number. Maya's number was 4.9 ( this is considered the gray area and her pancreas must be producing some enzymes so I do not need as much enzymes for her ) but a dog in the 1 or 2 range would need more.

I cannot prescribe a dosage to you as I am unfamiliar with Creon 25 and I am not a vet other than I think your creon 25 is alot stronger than mine and this may be what is causing the diarhhea in Mervin.
too much enzyme causes the same symptoms as no enzymes

time for a vet visit again for perhaps a lower strength of creon.
Again, this is just my view that your creon 25 is too strong for Mervin.
Please get back to the vet for his diagnosis and opinion.

Oh and by the way there are alot of canine nutritionists out there that do think it would not hurt to supplement dogs with a certain amount of digestive enzymes if you feed commercial dog food.
Dogs were never meant to eat all the crap that is added to the big name commercial dog foods, corn for example, corn by products, wheat and soy, and do not produce enough digestive enzymes to digest all the carbohydrates and grains.  So all of this undigested crap causes all kinds of digestive issues as it sits in the intestines and ferments and causes bacteria to grow.

They sell in better dog food stores a product called Prozyme ( which is a plant based enzyme not for EPI dogs but all others ) to help with digestion.  So if your non EPI dog is having digestive issues, like gas or runny poops it is a good idea to supplement with this natural product.  A natural health food product that helps aid proper digestion is not a bad thing.

I think Maywood, before you comment again, and please know I do respect your last comment, you should read up on canine nutrition, what is in commercial dog food, the role of the pancreas and enzymes and the symptoms of malabsorbtion in dogs. Once you have familiarized yourself with this and understand the process of digestion in dogs, please come back and then I will listen to your two cents worth. 

Again, I reiterate, I am not a vet I am not trying to be a vet I just hope that Gautam gets his dog back to the big city vet and finds out how to make his puppy better if malabsorbtion is the issue.

This will be my last comment about dog food:

So.... I just came back from feeding my two old rescue horses their breakfast. They get soaked Purina Equine Senior Horse Feed along with a pail of carrots and two flakes of hay.

I come back to the house because I got to thinking about the ingredients in a bag of horse feed.  Corn and corn by product meal are high on the list along with wheat germ, oats and bran rice. Horses and cattle are grain eaters, thus all the grains.  Their digestive tract is not set up to digest animal proteins. If I fed my horses my grain free dense organ meat Back to Basics dog food, it would probably kill them .

So I looked up the ingredients in a big name commercial dry dog food kibble and guess what ... the top four ingredients are corn, corn by product meal, corn gluten meal and whole wheat flour.

So then why is it that we don't feed our horses dog food. Because it would probably kill them and yet, we will feed our dogs horse or cattle feed under the guise of dog food and not even think about it.  Then we wonder how our beloved pet got malabsorbtion issues, intestinal cancer, liver disease and kidney failure. Its no wonder veteranarians are the highest paid professionals.

Have you also noticed lately that ever since the Blue Buffalo commercials where they talk about corn being the number one ingredient in dog food and how bad it is, that all the other big name dog food companies are combatting with better quality dog food with more protein and less corn. Why is that???

Yes, these big name dog food companies have much cheaper food that you can buy at Walmart because they are loaded with fillers and corn products that are so much cheaper than actual meat  and thus  makes dog ownership more affordable.

However, in the long run.....Is it???

Eldee, feeding philosophies aside, I have to challenge you on this statement:

"Its no wonder veteranarians are the highest paid professionals."

Source, please?  Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

Blimey if my pup was walking like that id be so worried and his total lack of energy and enthusiam  is very sad to see . He's obviously in pain.. Needs to see a vet asap

I believe my comment was heard on a Canadian radio all news station 680news.com. 
The quote below is from the American Vet Med Assoc.

Just wanted to paste this article.  I am still searching for where I read they are the highest paid and I think it was a Canadian stat.  My google engine is running on full throttle. I will find it if it kills me.

Still though they make a good salary.  This is posted in Feb 2011... their salaries are even higher today. (US)


Companion Animal Vets See Salary Increase; Equine Hit with LossesPosted: February 4, 2011, 4:35 p.m., EDT


[A new study shows that the average salary for private practice veterinarians increased from $115,447 in 2007 to $121,303 in 2009. The figures are based on the 2011 American Veterinary Medical Association Report on Veterinary Compensation, which is published every two years.] A new study shows that the average salary for private practice veterinarians increased from $115,447 in 2007 to $121,303 in 2009. The figures are based on the 2011 American Veterinary Medical Association Report on Veterinary Compensation, which is published every two years.
The private practice salary boost is largely due to the fact that companion animal exclusive veterinarians saw salary increases from $113,373 in 2007 to $124,768 in 2009, according to the AVMA study.
However, other private practice sectors—mixed animal, companion animal predominant and equine—faced salary decreases. The AVMA attributed the decline to the recession.
Specifically, mixed animal veterinarians saw the average salary drop from $117,201 in 2007 to $107,064 in 2009, companion animal predominant from $120,462 to $117,524 and equine from $131,195 to $126,641.
Food animal exclusive veterinarians also saw a dip in pay, from $139,612 in 2007 to $131,479 in 2009, but they are still the highest paid veterinarians working in private practice, according to the AVMA study.
All veterinarians working in public and corporate positions experienced salary increases between 2007 and 2009, according to the study.

****  The top earning veterinarians in 2009 worked in industry, on average earning $167,415.


And that number is from 2009. 

Hexe: I think the reason you are disbelieving is because Canadian statistics and US statistics vary widely. In Canada, doctors salaries are capped and veterinarians are not. In the US doctors make a lot more money as their salaries aren't capped so vets in the states don't come close to what doctors make in the US. And... vet salaries vary considerably from state to state. In New york city vets make on average over $200,000 per year, yet a vet in a rural southern town would make far less.

From the Toronto Star June 5th 2012

Heads up Occupy Toronto: Forget about protesting Canada’s growing income inequality on Bay Street. Most of Canada’s richest 1 per cent doesn’t even work in the financial district.

Instead, many of Canada’s highest income earners are doctors, dentists and veterinarians, new research shows, according to a study out of the University of British Columbia economics department. Canada’s richest are much more “Main Street than Bay Street,” said report co-author Nicole Fortin.