Reactive dog - training problem - Page 2

GSDtravels,
The Tabasco on the sponge works like a charm.  If you need advice on using it PM me, I'll be gald to help.

Jim

Slamdunc.. I think I could get the tabasco on the sponge, OK. How do I get the sponge on the dog, where it counts? Not sure my aim would be that good..

DDR-DSH,
The Tabasco on the sponge is for your own dog when it becomes dog aggressive, not the loose dogs.  They are many methods for dealing with dog aggressive dogs that do not escalate the aggression, this is one of them.  I read your post regarding dealing with stray or loose aggressive dogs and you gave some really good ideas and made some very good points. 

I believe what GSDtravels is referring to is when her dog becomes dog aggressive and begins to instigate or become out of control and pull her around.  GSDtravels, please correct me if I'm wrong.  If you have a dog aggressive dog and walk it down the street and the neighbor passes by with a leashed non aggressive dog or If you pass a house with a dog behind a fence and your dog goes crazy, these are the situations where the Tabasco will work. 

DDR-DSH, the next comments are not directed to you as I am sure you know this but to make a point for others reading.

First, when dealing with dog aggressive dogs prong collars and E collars can escalate the aggression and cause the dog to redirect it back to the handler.  IMO, these are not the best tools for this situation.  Also, as a handler if you tense up on the leash and become nervous at the sight of an approaching dog or nearing a house with dogs in the yard you will cue your dog that something is wrong.  You will inadvertently key your dog up and make the situation worse. 

Second, you must have very good obedience on your dog, this is usually the root of the problem.  IMO, very good obedience is not "house manners."  Then I would use a nylon slip collar when walking the dog.  If the dog shows the first subtle sign of dog aggression, I would command sit and if needed very calmly tighten up on the slip collar.  I would not yell at the dog, I would not become hysterical, angry or crazy myself.  Many people freak out at these times and you have then lost all control.  I would remain very calm and just tighten up on the leash.  Using a slip collar in this fashion is not a pain induced correction and doesn't elevate the aggression level. 

If this doesn't work you can put Tabasco sauce on a sponge and carry it in your pocket.  When your dog starts to become aggressive, you simply touch the sponge to the dogs nose and say "knock it off"  or what ever command you use.  The Tabasco is completely safe and will not do any harm to the dog.  The affects are not long lasting.  The dog will not like the sensation and will stop being aggressive.  The dog will also not redirect to the handler.  It is very simple and effective.  Again, I would not do this if a loose dog was approaching my dog,

The biggest factor is noticing the subtle cues your dog gives you before he becomes aggressive.  This may be just that he raises his shoulder, hie ear set is different, body posture, up on the toes, etc.  You must correct when the dog begins to think about it, before he is in a rage.  Obedience is very important, give the dog a focus command like "watch me" and heel.  You should be able to walk right by other dogs. 

FWIW,

Jim

Slamdunk,

  I think the best of your suggestions for me would be obedience.. the old Bill Koehler kind, not the tennis-ball-under-your-chin, bait-feeding type. It's well known that confidence is one of the hidden advantages of this kind of training. When the dog knows what he cannot do (not permitted) and what he is safe in doing (remaining calm and controlled) it removes a lot of inner conflict for him. Suddenly, he doesn't have to struggle with HOW to react to a situation. He knows that if he stays calm and controlled that he is "safe". This, in itself, has a calming effect and gives confidence.. which is exactly what you want, when another dog is pushing your dog's buttons.

  On another thread, some people were talking about Caesar Milan and this theories. They were talking about the type of dog that has a sort of calm authority. Other dogs really tend to look up to these calm, confident dogs as alpha types. If you've ever seen these dogs interact with other dogs in a group, it's really neet. They make it look so easy. They can dish out discipline in the group, but it's never over-the-top or over-aggressive. A dog like this can teach young dogs a lot about fitting into the group and managing conflict.

  I have two young dogs, now.. One was really a pain in the butt when he was young, from the time he was a little puppy. He had the tendency to hackle up and confront his littermates. In particular he and his brother (also here) were having a lot of rivalry. I put each of those youngsters in with their father, independantly, and he had them straightened out pretty quick. His an older dog, but one of the calm, dignified types. He would not allow them to get too cocky. Both of them straightened out, quite a bit.. especially the trouble maker. He also was very reactive, but I watched him basically just sit calmly with a big smile on his face as his brother tried to provoke him. How the father did this, I am not entirely sure.. He never really hurt them, but he let them know who's in charge. If your dog feels that you are in charge, he will basically defer to your authority and judgement in this kind of a situation.. if that's what you've laid down in the "expectations" category.

  Dogs are social animals, as we all know, and their has to be social and functional structure, and heirarchy of authority, or the pack would not be able to function as a unit. So, it is not hard for most dogs to understand the concept of obedience, of the kind the Germans call, "Unterordnung".. under order, deferring to authority. This problem would probably be best treated as an obedience problem, from the standpoint of the dog being bicycled.

  That bracket that I mentioned made sort of a letter "J", inverted. The spring in the middle made a good shock absorber, and keeping the pull of the dog over the rear wheel gave the bicyclist the complete control of the steering wheel. Even if the dog DID give a hard pull, it was easy to maintain control of the bike and the dog. I can't remember the name of the companies making or selling it. It's been too long. I do remember thinking, "This is great! I'd better buy two of these, while they're available". I imagine that a clever person with some time and tools could make something similar up for their own use.

  Thanks, Slamdunk!

Slamdunc, you were spot on.  Normally, we can walk with no problem, but when another passes, he takes notice and as soon as he sees a cue, he's ready to go.  If the other dog barks, growls, raises hackles, anything, his ears go up, his posture raises, hackles up, then the rush.  I can only walk him on a prong and have been able to keep total control.  He has never come at me, no matter the correction.  But, there were a few times that I thought I was going to have to choke him out on the prong!  Wrong answer!  So, lately, I've been walking him on a flat collar with a tab on the prong.  If I had to choke him out, I would, but on the flat collar.  There are a million dogs around here and, as usual, a million stupid owners.  They walk their dogs on those extended leads, let all the way out.  DUH!  And many times, their dogs have gone after mine.  When that happens, uh, there are times it's not been easy.  If the other dog wags his tail or ignores, I usually don't have a problem.  I do think it was winning his first and only fight that gave him this attitude of "You start, I'll finish!"  I want to be the one calling the shots and this is the only control problem I have at this point but I really need to rein him in or he'll be headed for trouble.  The other day, I walked on the main road and on the way back, spotted a chow mix across the street, loose!  No owner in sight, I almost had a heart attack.  I went directly to the door of a bar that was open and waited.  Had the dog come at us, I would have gone into the bar!  Fortunately, another dog on lead, also on the other side, walked close to the loose one and diverted his attention.  I don't know what happened, I hightailed it!  Somethimes a walk can be more like work when the weather gets nice, 5 am is always a good time but I'd like to enjoy a sunny day!  I'll try the sponge and let you know how we do.  It would be wonerful to be able to walk him on a flat collar and still know I have control at all times.  Thanks a million!

I may be publicly wrong for saying what i'm saying, but bring a stick and swing for the fences on the golden retriever....If there dog is not on a leash its fair game to get kicked shot or smacked with a stick.. I had a guy that lives with a older pit and she walks free every day and she noses up to my Male GSD and my dog took it to the ground....I told the guy if it was on a leash then his dog wouldn;t be in shambles.........But thats my aditude towards lose dogs...Were golf cleates and step on the dogs feet, what ever or you can be civil and go to the owner and adv them of there agressive dog and then if it happens again report it to the police or local dog pound!!!

I was proud of myself that the only yelling I did was at the other owner - I told her to get her damn dog.  Georgia sat after 1 command although she was totally focused on the other dog.  We used to be where GSDtravels is now, and our old trainers really understood the problem and started us working on focus before anything else.  They also helped me work on my body language and what I was communicating subconsciously.  It's been working long and hard on focus that's gotten us to the point that she can mostly ignore other dogs, unless we are in a confined space or the kids are around.

I think I'm going to put soda cans filled with pennies in my bike basket to throw as needed - won't hurt anything, but may stop a charging dog long enough.  I'm too uncoordinated to bike with a stick or baseball bat without somehow injuring myself. :) 

My other problem is that my husband does not read her signals well and allows her to get ramped up when he takes her out, but that's a whole nother post.  She behaves much differently with me, and I get much more focus and control.

Now I've got to find trainers here (we recently moved) that are as good as the ones we left!  Madison tends to be a liberal, let's all use treats when we train type of city.

Opal

Regarding the Tabasco, I think I need to clarify a few things.  I have gotten a lot of PM's with questions about how it works for dog aggression.

Ok, this is not for defending against a dog coming at you. This is used on your own dog when he becomes aggressive towards other dogs. This is not a training technique, but used when your dog is about to go into a dog aggressive rage. I wouldn't use it when there are loose aggressive dogs that can approach your dog. The times it can be effective are when you are walking your dog on a leash and it goes after a neighbors dog behind a fence, when traveling in a car and the dog goes crazy at the sight of other dogs. Or when walking your dog and you pass another dog on leash and your worried your dog will attack the other dog. It is a good technique for a person that doesn't have complete control of their dog and it will not escalate the aggression or cause the dog to redirect to the handler.

There are many techniques that when used may escalate the aggression, a prong collar, ecollar or strong leash corrections can cause some dogs to go into more of a rage when dealing with dog aggression.    I am not recommending this as a cure all for dog aggression, it is not meant as a replacement for socializing and obedience training.  However, it is very effective for a dog that goes into a rage and will redirect back on the handler.  It is simple to use and causes no lasting affects and works well.  It gives the handler the ability to remain calm, put the sponge to the nose and not have to worry about getting bit. 


Here is how to do it: 
You use a sponge dipped in Tabasco sauce. You simply put the sponge on the dogs nose as he becomes aggressive, it will stop the behavior and not escalate the aggression as a prong collar can. The Tabasco has no lasting effects and will not affect the dogs tracking ability. It is easy and doesn't require much strength or skill, it's also very effective.

I wouldn't have the sponge dripping in Tabasco, just dipped so when you squeeze it a little comes out. Just damp.

It gives you the ability to remain calm and just apply the sponge. It will quickly stop the behavior as the dog will find the Tabasco unpleasant.

It is just another way to stop a behavior.  It is not for every dog and not every handler needs it.  It is good for a dog that would redirect to the handler or come up the leash after a correction for dog aggression, this would be a good option. 

I hope that makes more sense,


Jim

Thank you for the lesson.