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by Sunsilver on 14 March 2010 - 16:03
Hexe, yeah, I remember that pyo thread from last year, and the exploding uterus! [shudder!] But since it is the hormonal changes that set up the conditions for pyometra to develop, leaving the uterus intact wouldn't bother me.
BTW, the vet that did Star's surgery managed to kill another dog he spayed. She was an elderly bitch with pyo. They had tried to treat her with antibiotics without success. She was not eating or drinking. He took her in to surgery very ill and no doubt dehydrated. He DID NOT give IV fluids during surgery.
She bled out somewhere between 24 to 48 hours afterwards. When my friend noticed the pool of blood (which had been hidden underneath her, and mostly absorbed by the dog bed) he called up the vet who responded, "Sorry, I'm just going into a meeting. I can't do anything for her right now. Call me later and let me know how she's doing."
A couple of hours later, she was dead.
If it had been my dog, the vet would be facing a disciplinary hearing by the Ontario Veterinary college!
I can understand him not giving fluids to a healthy dog for a routine spay, though I (obviously!) don't think it's a wise practise, but to NOT do it for one that was so sick is criminal!
BTW, the vet that did Star's surgery managed to kill another dog he spayed. She was an elderly bitch with pyo. They had tried to treat her with antibiotics without success. She was not eating or drinking. He took her in to surgery very ill and no doubt dehydrated. He DID NOT give IV fluids during surgery.
She bled out somewhere between 24 to 48 hours afterwards. When my friend noticed the pool of blood (which had been hidden underneath her, and mostly absorbed by the dog bed) he called up the vet who responded, "Sorry, I'm just going into a meeting. I can't do anything for her right now. Call me later and let me know how she's doing."
A couple of hours later, she was dead.
If it had been my dog, the vet would be facing a disciplinary hearing by the Ontario Veterinary college!
I can understand him not giving fluids to a healthy dog for a routine spay, though I (obviously!) don't think it's a wise practise, but to NOT do it for one that was so sick is criminal!by malshep on 14 March 2010 - 16:03
Sunsilver, I am sorry both dog went out of this world this way. Normal saline should always be running. You never know what can happen during a procedure.
Always,
Cee
Always,
Cee
by hexe on 14 March 2010 - 19:03
Sunsilver, please extend my condolences to your friend--there is no excuse for the substandard level of care her dog received and while death is certainly a risk associated with acute pyometra, especially in a dog where antibiotic treatment was tried and failed, this dog absolutely would have had a much better chance of surviving post-op had she been on fluids both during and *after* surgery. In a good percentage of practices in the US, it is becoming the standard of treatment to administer fluids during any procedure that includes general anesthesia, even just routine dentals, simply because there is always a chance that there's some underlying condition the animal is unable to tell us about that could cause complications once they're anesthetized, and the cost of fluids is minimal compared to the cost of trying to rescue the animal once it's crashed.
I concur that the risk of pyo in an ovariectomized female is minimal, but I still believe it's safer to err on the side of caution and remove the uterus, since it provides absolutely no benefit to the animal by being left behind. Once a female is desexed, regardless of the method, pyometra falls off the differential diagnosis list when the animal presents with a non-specific illness that is manifesting with fever, anorexia, lethargy and other signals of sepsis, but in the case of an ovariectomized bitch, that differential needs to remain on the list, and it falls to the owner to make sure the treating vet (who may not be the one who did the ovariectomy) is aware that the uterus still remains and has to be considered if no obvious locus of infection can be identified. I trust that Cee will always remember to do this, but I doubt that the average pet owner will even realize their pet had a different type of surgical sterilization let alone remember it years later, and that's what concerns me about it becoming a routine technique.
I concur that the risk of pyo in an ovariectomized female is minimal, but I still believe it's safer to err on the side of caution and remove the uterus, since it provides absolutely no benefit to the animal by being left behind. Once a female is desexed, regardless of the method, pyometra falls off the differential diagnosis list when the animal presents with a non-specific illness that is manifesting with fever, anorexia, lethargy and other signals of sepsis, but in the case of an ovariectomized bitch, that differential needs to remain on the list, and it falls to the owner to make sure the treating vet (who may not be the one who did the ovariectomy) is aware that the uterus still remains and has to be considered if no obvious locus of infection can be identified. I trust that Cee will always remember to do this, but I doubt that the average pet owner will even realize their pet had a different type of surgical sterilization let alone remember it years later, and that's what concerns me about it becoming a routine technique.
by Jenni78 on 14 March 2010 - 20:03
Has anyone tried taking the uterus and not ovaries? I believe it was Dr.Belfield who had that on his site as a healthier alternative to the ovariohysterectomy- you have the health benefits of an intact animal w/out risk of pregnancy. Just wondering what the practicality of it was- in theory it sounds good, but lots of things sound good in theory!
www.belfield.com/pdfs/Partial_Spay.pdf
www.belfield.com/pdfs/Partial_Spay.pdf
by Sunsilver on 14 March 2010 - 23:03
Malshep, when they removed a cyst from my dog's tail down in the Toronto area, they insisted on having normal saline running even though the whole procedure probably took about 15 minutes from start to finish!
But this is Northern Ontario, and the wages are very low up here, so the vets try to cut corners to save the client money...
But this is Northern Ontario, and the wages are very low up here, so the vets try to cut corners to save the client money...
by malshep on 15 March 2010 - 10:03
Morning Sunsilver, or is it that the vet does not know how to place a catheter. In my opinion, I feel that why take chances when you can run a line. I would recommend that all the vets in an area go as a buying group and can get better pricing on about everything they need in their clinics. If they want to buy in bulk, they can contact their suppliers for bids. All they would need to do is see what their yearly usage would be and go from there.
Ballpark price maybe 12.00 US (cath, line, 1000ml fluid). I am sure a vet can eat 12.00 for peace of mind.
IMO
Always,
Cee
Ballpark price maybe 12.00 US (cath, line, 1000ml fluid). I am sure a vet can eat 12.00 for peace of mind.
IMO
Always,
Cee
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