DDR dogs and sport - Page 2

probably about the same percentage wise as other lines when adjusted for population size, Also depends how far back you look to see where the family lines are coming out of.  Some of the dutch dogs dipped their toes into the ddr pool back a bit.  These three or so related threads have been interesting, fun and entertaining though.

I guess I'm not understanding......why would dogs from DDR bloodlines...NOT make good Schutzhund dogs??
Does it not depend on the individual dogs themselves also?
My only personal experience with this bloodline, is from 3 different dogs.....all 3 have super drives, including my own young female.
What exact "characteristics"...does not make them competent sport dogs??
Robin

Some people say they are handler sensitive, some that they lack prey, some comment that they are too sharp, or too much defense.

If you go to a club whose helpers only work dogs in prey, or are not skilled in how to develop a sharp/defensive dog, then they can be quite difficult to train/title.

--Mary

It's not just about not knowing how...it's also about not liking sharp/defensive dogs. That's not what I want to live with (my dogs live with me, they aren't kennel-bound), and training those kinds of dogs is more of a rush than a good time. So maybe it's just about personal preference and WHY one trains to begin with. 

Vom M, you must have had a really bad experience with a DDR dog. They are one of the most easiest dogs to live with in the house. Gagsd has a very valid point regards to training them. The usual pray/play routines are not for them. You work them more in defense drive, but this does not mean that the helper agitates them untill one sees the bestie from hell that ripps your head off. Thats an absolute missconception of a sharp dog, or working a dog in defense. Besides, how many peeps have actual tried to bring a DDR to a higher level here in the US? Or have been told by there TD or helper that the dog doesnt has it and given up without even trying?

This raises an interesting question for me and one that I struggled with working a bitch of my own.

Ideally, I like to see a dog start protection in prey and eventually, as the dog becomes more mature and confident, be pushed into defense.  A dog truly working in defense should believe that it is being threatened which is understandably stressful for the dog.  That stress is typically alleviated by lowering the level of intensity to allow the dog to switch from defense back to prey before each encounter is concluded.

The bitch in question was not short of prey drive...in fact she had tons of it...she was the first dog I ever had that not only chased squirrels but caught and killed them.  That notwithstanding, she was somewhat sharp and protection work was never a game for her; she was serious from the moment she came on the field to until the moment she left it.  The helper was not her friend or playmate; the helper was someone she wanted to kill.  I was always concerned about that for a couple of reasons.  First of all, I could never come to the conclusion that any part of protection work was ever fun for her; it was a fight, plain and simple.  More importantly, I worried that without the ability to work her in prey at all, I also had no way to alleviate the associated stress.  How do those who have similar dogs deal with this or does it just come with the territory?

Keith wroteHow do those who have similar dogs deal with this or does it just come with the territory?

My male was much like you describe and by learning that he could control the helper, he began to have fun. At first it was all about defense in the literal sense. But as we taught him his "power" he began to have fun. He would go by the helper, tongue lolling and wag his tail as if to say "bring it on"!

But it is harder to work a dog who has a natural fall-back to defense. If you push them too much, too fast (did this with my current female and still trying to patch things up), they go into avoidance. Just because they come on the field with a full grip and lots of forward aggression, does NOT mean they are ready to be pushed. And that is maybe where many of us make the mistakes.

If the handler and helper do things right, (assuming genetics is there), then the dog comes through a serious, stable, strong dog.

BTW- both of the dogs I mentioned had TONS of prey drive for "real" prey. Squirrel catching, chipmunk killers they are. Neither is "pure" DDR but DDR/WGr working mix.

--Mary

I have just been sitting back laughing out loud about all these posts saying DDR Dogs are low in drive. You people are knee slapping funny!!! My DDR dogs are so high they are hard to knock down to work, concentrate,  and they are not able to live freely in my home (they don't stop!).

My suggestion for anyone who is asking is to visit the parent sof the dogs you are looking for. Visit kennels and see for yourself. Maybe you will ike them, maybe not. There is no such thing as a PERFECT "Line". To each his own. I will admit that my own Belgian and West Dogs were "harder" in bitework and even handler hard when I first got them started but I know that that is these particular dogs I owned and never make such a blanket statement. I have certainly seen West & Belgian lines who were soft and not driven.

Look around and find the "dog" you want, not the "Line".

Yeah, I think I'm going with that opinion, K-9. I'm not in the market for the dog, but the concept is probably right on.  

For all the posters commenting about how great their ddr dogs are, please post pedigree and working titles earned.  I am interested in knowing how many are full ddr and titled.

thanks