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by VomMarischal on 08 February 2010 - 17:02
"prey monsters who have a less serious mentality toward bitework"
In my experience, that's an impossible phrase. My dogs are mostly West German with about 25% Czech thrown in, and they are primarily prey monsters with a SERIOUS mentality toward bitework. And they had it before I threw the Czech outcross in. It's very possible in WORKING lines to have prey drive that equates to superior bitework.
PS. How does being all excited about your new puppies automatically equate to advertising? I have every intention of posting lots of puppy photos when they get born, but none are available for sale.
In my experience, that's an impossible phrase. My dogs are mostly West German with about 25% Czech thrown in, and they are primarily prey monsters with a SERIOUS mentality toward bitework. And they had it before I threw the Czech outcross in. It's very possible in WORKING lines to have prey drive that equates to superior bitework.
PS. How does being all excited about your new puppies automatically equate to advertising? I have every intention of posting lots of puppy photos when they get born, but none are available for sale.
by beetree on 08 February 2010 - 17:02
" ... The other issue I see is the pet people who love the LOOK of these dogs don't feel like dealing with what was initially proper temperament for them, so they water them down ..."
Oh, don't blame the pet people! We only buy the dogs, and have no input into breeding selections. No self-respecting, DNA divining, matchmaking, future-thinking, breeder gives a hoot what we think. We are always an afterthought. With benefits that is, as in a checkbook.
Oh, don't blame the pet people! We only buy the dogs, and have no input into breeding selections. No self-respecting, DNA divining, matchmaking, future-thinking, breeder gives a hoot what we think. We are always an afterthought. With benefits that is, as in a checkbook.
by Jenni78 on 08 February 2010 - 18:02
VomMarischal said:
"prey monsters who have a less serious mentality toward bitework"
In my experience, that's an impossible phrase. My dogs are mostly West German with about 25% Czech thrown in, and they are primarily prey monsters with a SERIOUS mentality toward bitework. And they had it before I threw the Czech outcross in. It's very possible in WORKING lines to have prey drive that equates to superior bitework.
No, no, no. Totally not what I mean. A dog is either not serious or serious. This has $hi+ to do with "superior bitework" . What I mean is their MENTALITY (which I stated). Do they see the decoy as a playmate he/she has been brought up to play a game with (ie, lifelong sport training beginning with a rag), or do they see them as a potentially serious threat (waiting until maturity and allowing defense and fight to be brought into it)? WHY are they biting them??? This is my point. Many (if not most) people don't care WHY a dog bites; they only care about HOW. I'm the opposite; I like a dog to bite for certain reasons- because it bites anything that moves too fast is not a good reason in my book, although it sure does sell puppie$.
PS. How does being all excited about your new puppies automatically equate to advertising? I have every intention of posting lots of puppy photos when they get born, but none are available for sale.
Huh?Didn't say anything about being "all excited." I was talking about dropping email addresses and website links into every post where a person asks about certain lines.
Beetree...I meant pet breeders, not pet owners, LOL. You know who I mean- lots of pretty dogs they never even do anything with, all gathered together like they're sedated or something. Excellent control is one thing; this is a matter of watered down temperament to make pretty dark dogs w/big heads more manageable for the people who would be better off w/a statue than a real dog. ;-)
"prey monsters who have a less serious mentality toward bitework"
In my experience, that's an impossible phrase. My dogs are mostly West German with about 25% Czech thrown in, and they are primarily prey monsters with a SERIOUS mentality toward bitework. And they had it before I threw the Czech outcross in. It's very possible in WORKING lines to have prey drive that equates to superior bitework.
No, no, no. Totally not what I mean. A dog is either not serious or serious. This has $hi+ to do with "superior bitework" . What I mean is their MENTALITY (which I stated). Do they see the decoy as a playmate he/she has been brought up to play a game with (ie, lifelong sport training beginning with a rag), or do they see them as a potentially serious threat (waiting until maturity and allowing defense and fight to be brought into it)? WHY are they biting them??? This is my point. Many (if not most) people don't care WHY a dog bites; they only care about HOW. I'm the opposite; I like a dog to bite for certain reasons- because it bites anything that moves too fast is not a good reason in my book, although it sure does sell puppie$.
PS. How does being all excited about your new puppies automatically equate to advertising? I have every intention of posting lots of puppy photos when they get born, but none are available for sale.
Huh?Didn't say anything about being "all excited." I was talking about dropping email addresses and website links into every post where a person asks about certain lines.
Beetree...I meant pet breeders, not pet owners, LOL. You know who I mean- lots of pretty dogs they never even do anything with, all gathered together like they're sedated or something. Excellent control is one thing; this is a matter of watered down temperament to make pretty dark dogs w/big heads more manageable for the people who would be better off w/a statue than a real dog. ;-)
by Sherry Williams on 08 February 2010 - 19:02
All over this board and others people are talking about how their dog is excellent with strangers etc. The old style dogs I mentioned where only excellent with people you told them it was okay to be excellent to. Today there are so few true protection dogs. Sure a dog can bite you out of prey drive but what ever happened to the dogs natural ability to protect whats theirs and their turf. Also without fight drive you just have a retriever who has been taught to retrieve a sleeve. I just liked the old dogs we use to see in schutzhund that you knew better than to get out your car until they where put up, or no one would dare to go in a house or around your children if your dog was around.... I am talking about confident strong dogs that genetically where tuff and great to handle.
by Red Sable on 08 February 2010 - 19:02
Great post Sherry.
by CrysBuck25 on 08 February 2010 - 19:02
Great post, Sherry, I second Red Sable.
You want to know what happened to the dogs who would keep everyone out of your yard and were tough enough to protect their territory and families?
In a word:
LIABILITY.
They are watered down because there is no market for a dog that might really bite someone...Can't risk it...Could lose the house and everything if someone gets bit..No insurance co wants to back you if you have a dog like that.
Get rid of some of the unnecessary litigation in this country, and a lot of things would improve.
Crys
You want to know what happened to the dogs who would keep everyone out of your yard and were tough enough to protect their territory and families?
In a word:
LIABILITY.
They are watered down because there is no market for a dog that might really bite someone...Can't risk it...Could lose the house and everything if someone gets bit..No insurance co wants to back you if you have a dog like that.
Get rid of some of the unnecessary litigation in this country, and a lot of things would improve.
Crys
by Pharaoh on 08 February 2010 - 20:02
Pharaoh is excellent with strangers, at the park, hiking, in stores. He is just perfectly social as long as they don't appear in front of the house or heavens, at the front door. Then, it is a very different Pharaoh.
There was a door to door salesman one day. He looked a bit like a San Francisco street person. I was in the front garden weeding and there is a three foot fence in the front. The guy stopped in my arbor and I right away said, you have a nice day but I do not do business with people who just show up. Pharaoh was watching quietly and before I could stop him, he leaped over the bushes and the fence like a hunter jumper and in one bound he was next to the guy. He stood on his hind legs and stuck his toungue out like a snake and took a little lick.. I called him back and he leapt back over the fence and the bush and lay down like nothing had happened.
As far as Pharaoh was concerned, he didn't touch the fence (he cleared it by a foot) and he didn't jump up on the guy (he faced him at an angle and he didn't put his paws on him, turned his head and only his tongue tuched him). Pharaoh would make a good lawyer.
There have been some adjustments to his training.
He is exactly what you are describing. Beautiful dog, large skull, big boned, and they are all cousins. Don Rolandsteich numerous times, Ohle Rundeck, Jeff Flamingsands, Ingo Rdingen, Don Rio, Don Clausberg, etc and OOOPS! Sven Grafental just to keep it a little bit edgy.
Pharaoh is NOT an appropriate pet dog. His saving grace is his sunny disposition and even temper. I don't think you can count on a good pet dog even if that is what they are breeding towards.
Michele
There was a door to door salesman one day. He looked a bit like a San Francisco street person. I was in the front garden weeding and there is a three foot fence in the front. The guy stopped in my arbor and I right away said, you have a nice day but I do not do business with people who just show up. Pharaoh was watching quietly and before I could stop him, he leaped over the bushes and the fence like a hunter jumper and in one bound he was next to the guy. He stood on his hind legs and stuck his toungue out like a snake and took a little lick.. I called him back and he leapt back over the fence and the bush and lay down like nothing had happened.
As far as Pharaoh was concerned, he didn't touch the fence (he cleared it by a foot) and he didn't jump up on the guy (he faced him at an angle and he didn't put his paws on him, turned his head and only his tongue tuched him). Pharaoh would make a good lawyer.
There have been some adjustments to his training.
He is exactly what you are describing. Beautiful dog, large skull, big boned, and they are all cousins. Don Rolandsteich numerous times, Ohle Rundeck, Jeff Flamingsands, Ingo Rdingen, Don Rio, Don Clausberg, etc and OOOPS! Sven Grafental just to keep it a little bit edgy.
Pharaoh is NOT an appropriate pet dog. His saving grace is his sunny disposition and even temper. I don't think you can count on a good pet dog even if that is what they are breeding towards.
Michele
by Ibrahim on 08 February 2010 - 20:02
I love the guts of Pharaoh and the posts of his owner 
Ibrahim
Ibrahim
by Red Sable on 08 February 2010 - 20:02
The standard says aloof, wary of strangers. My first dog was exactly that. He was fine with people as soon as you told him it was okay at home. I took him to schutzhund as a 3 yr old, and he grabbed the sleeve his first time,( in defense not prey).
Great with kids at all times, at home or anywhere, but never outgoingly friendly with adult strangers. He would walk in a crowd, totally ignore everyone, and every dog. I took him to the fall fair, full of people and children and would never worry about him biting anyone. He didn't care about anyone else, unless you acted aggressively.
One time I took him to the city, and a punk walked by and jumped at him, just because he was a Shepherd, that is the only time he paid anyone any heed, and I know he would of grabbed him, had the kid stuck around to do it again.
That is my idea of an ideal shepherd. Here he is.
Great with kids at all times, at home or anywhere, but never outgoingly friendly with adult strangers. He would walk in a crowd, totally ignore everyone, and every dog. I took him to the fall fair, full of people and children and would never worry about him biting anyone. He didn't care about anyone else, unless you acted aggressively.
One time I took him to the city, and a punk walked by and jumped at him, just because he was a Shepherd, that is the only time he paid anyone any heed, and I know he would of grabbed him, had the kid stuck around to do it again.
That is my idea of an ideal shepherd. Here he is.
by Ibrahim on 08 February 2010 - 21:02
Red Sable,
What a nice looking one, why were his pictures hidden all the time, what a nice head and pigmentation, he sounds of great temperament and excellent character too. Do you still have him with you ??
Ibrahim
What a nice looking one, why were his pictures hidden all the time, what a nice head and pigmentation, he sounds of great temperament and excellent character too. Do you still have him with you ??
Ibrahim
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