Schutzhund and only schutzhund? - Page 9

For mé I like Koos from the tiekerhook kennels love his High drive dogs genetics thats the Way to go Or France because I see a litle of the gsd old time In these Lines

Johan77

you wrote

you always talks about mals and their love for chasing and biting, like that´s the only things a good dog is made of, what about nerves, hardness, courage and so on ? I understand you don´t care about if a dog could do policework and not only sport, for me I rather see a dog that could do more than sport, and not only be a decent ringdog but not fitted for servicework.  


have you read somewhere that I dont care if dogs can do police work ???? I have not wrote that at any time

I wrote I could care less for the links here with pics of dogs who are police dogs

police dogs are very different i over all because the different countrys have different sayings about what and how a dog can become a policedogs and what it requires of the dogs is different from ect the States to Skandinavia

USA use dogs that are what I think more drivey because they use the biting much more than in Scandinavia we mostly use police dogs at searching buildings or tracking many danish police dogs never bite enyone in there intire life almost no police k9 are used to catch criminals like in other eu countrys and the states to you cant compare a danish police k9 to a police dog in the states or anywhere else

so ofcourse I think its important that a dog could do policework but the Danish police dogs its not important how he bites or if he is good at it they mostly use there dogs for nosework and a litle of their training is bite work

many of them have not full bites but a weak bite.

I love service work but a schh dog has nothing to do with real life I would give you my cake that a RING titled dog could certainly better be used for police work than the other way around

nerves, hardness,courage is just as important to me than anyone else that is what I've been writing al the time many of the schh dogs of today are softer, not as hard,lacks courage, cant handle a hard correction without loosing drive, that is what you see more and more  not like the earliere lines , Im not just talking preydrive it al come down to that schh does not test these things very much its tests more if you can train a dog to do all these exersices correctly.

the reason for using the mals is that its the dog  that has taken the gsd ranking number 1 working drive and everyone knows this dog as a very drivey dog

Myret, your thinking is wrong when you throw dogs that can barely get a SchH title and those that get SchH titles because that is the training venue the handler chooses to work on into the same description based solely on the title.  The title can not describe the dog; it only says the dog went through training to get those titles.

At least in America, it is very hard to get a SchH1 on a good dog because schutzhund clubs are few and far between.  Ring clubs are even rarer.  I have yet to see here a bad dog get a SchH1.  I'm sure it happens; but most I have found do not have the ability or time to get a bad dog trained to SchH1.

The police dogs I linked, especially Griff, Chico, and Liam (Boomer) are in America and are well known for their apprehension/courage/fight ability.  And they also have SchH titles.  I didnt realize you were not in America, so you dont automatically know these dogs and their credentials.  But now you do.

Myret, you said a ring 3 dog is a very good dog, if you know agree that it´s not about different sports but instead genetics and goal that matter we can agree on that, it´s what I´ve been saying all the time. You said you don´t care about policedos, don´t knowt what you mean by that. Fact is GSDs(and mals) are used as PSDs both in scandinavia and US, from same lines and often bought from europe  and also denmark. Yes, in scandinavia most PSDs are doing much nosework, but biting is also a part. I would guess not all US policedogs are biting every week and nosework is not important, considering US is so large and no uniform standards in selection and certification for the whole US I can only guess their policedogs vary much more in quality than in scandinavia where all dogs go thru similar selection and certification in each country, the skill of the breeders and handlers are also probably better in scandinavia where breeding and dogsports have longer traditions.

Koos also uses high scoring SCH-dogs by the way.

So does Myret's breeder. I believe her pup is linebred on Half.

In regards to the video of the puppies,
as I stated before, I have seen many WL
litter show the same-bite crazy fools,
I have also seen many SL litters do the same.
The difference in them all is,
let's see who "has it" at 12 mos, 24mos, 36mos etc.

Christ, we helped an employee's friend select
a Springer Spaniel puppy recently,
THAT litter of  puppies chased, bit and hung on too!

In the USA, Canada as well really, our working dog
events/activities are fairly limited when it comes to
"bite sports".

Ring, French and/or Mondio is too small,
and the same thing has happened time and
time again in ring clubs, the infighting and politics
wear people down and they quit. We did Brevet's
on our 'schutzhund' dogs many many years ago,
I think that was back when  there was only NARA,
then came 'the split'. One of the things we didn't
like about ring was the lack of control/precision.

This is the main reason Schutzhund is for us.
We have went out and dabbled in PSA,
again, not for us. Too much infighting,
little organization, lack of control on dogs,
and no local/regional/international
recognition of working titles.

I won't bother going into all the other assorted
K9 bite sport associations we joined and played in.
Most were dead end,
and usually turned into a scam of some sort.

Is schutzhund perfect? NO

But, it is a great place to start looking at a dog.
It is an internationally accepted system of
titling a dog that we can all do research from.
Again, for those that say it's lame, not a good
starting point etc, go walk on to the field and win
the Nationals and the Worlds then-should be easy!
At least if you are going to criticize a sport, have
some actual experience in it. Not just 'oh, I trained in
it for __ years'. Maybe your dog isn't 'all that' if you
have trained in it for __ years and never got anywhere.

Once you start to break down each exercise
and realize what it will tell you about a dog,
you can possibly have a better appreciation for it.
I'm not talking about "points dogs" I'm referring
to going to a club trial and watching those dogs.
Go to training sessions, see where the dog excels
and where it struggles, watch the handling as well.

Oh, for myret, you do know that many years back
a WG showline dog made KNPV PH1 right?
If memory serves me right, the dog was also titled
in the Objectbewakingshond.

Good dogs will always be where you find them, but
a good place to start looking is a working dog club.

Mfh27 We title dogs here In Denmark very fast many have their schh 3 within the dog is 2-3 years old many have already trained their dog to a title 3 before they cant take the title and Thère are alot of schh training facilitets here

Yes hé is linebreed ón Half

Fwiw I understand what myret is trying to say. Without a doubt it takes a very good dog to get to ring 3. I think a good example of what she is trying to say would be to look at the protection work at the bszs. Most are schh3 but could probably never get a ring3 title. But on the same note myret..... until there is a sport that allows you to crack a dog in the head with a whiskey bottle when he comes at you and kick him in the ribs with a pasir of steel toe boots...... its still a sport. I guarantee you there are many ring3 dogs that will quickly lose drive in that scenario. Just a little food for thought. Kurt

Also just because a dog is a high point dog in schutzhund in no way means he is not a hard high drive dog. For instance take gary hanrahans bastin vom kokeltal. VERY VERY STRONG DOG. And I also had the pleasure of being in a club with one of his sons anteras zu treuen handen. And I can assure you the only way you are going to stop him is to kill or maim him. Especiall here in the states there a very few people and clubs with the knowledge and skill to take these dogs to that level but it can be done :)