Schutzhund and only schutzhund? - Page 13

Myret you spent some time talking about the dogs people in Denmark won't use and how most GSD's won't pass a SAR test..... Perhaps it's Denmark's breeding program that needs to be taken a look at.

I agree about the show people but here In Denmark dogs must have a IPO/schh 1 or PH for breeding and a UHP that is 20 km ride after a bike and obedience after to see If the dog Can handle to work after a very long ride and hé is tired thats the same for males and females working dogs or showlines

Ramgsd Thère are many requirement In Denmark If you want to breed gsd They must have a PH title or Schh/IPO 1 They must be able to pass a test of 20 km where you ride a bike and after this obedience to see If the dog is still able to work after this long run They must pass a FP test to see If the dog is able to walk In the City between people not be intimidating towards other people and be social and you must be able to tie the dog up at a shop go In the shop while someone Will pas by your dog with another dog and the dog must not act aggressive or it Will not pass

Ramgsd Thère are many requirement In Denmark If you want to breed gsd They must have a PH title or Schh/IPO 1 They must be able to pass a test of 20 km where you ride a bike and after this obedience to see If the dog is still able to work after this long run They must pass a FP test to see If the dog is able to walk In the City between people not be intimidating towards other people and be social and you must be able to tie the dog up at a shop go In the shop while someone Will pas by your dog with another dog and the dog must not act aggressive or it Will not pass

I Think most have to dó with the breeders they cant take criticism of the breed and wont Maybe because they dont have such High standards A's I dó Just like here gsd people or many other always has an argument when and why the gsd has this or that I also see that the working Line are getting more and more anguled behind it just looks awfull with those angulated hindlegs and back and becomes worse and worse they The breeders of working lines wandys their dogs In kl 1 so they look more like a show lines

Myret, well as you know common SCH-lines are also doing KNPV, french ring, swedish program, so apparantly they can do other things, look up vidoq de valsory, a 100% SCH-line dog after ellute doing ring 3 quite well it seems. I haven´t seen that almost "every working GSD" could do SCH as well as many kimbo offspring,  they seems to have good fightingdrive,good strong barking and fast attacks, your welcome to show me other dogs or studs that have produced so much better. Lexus is also proven outside sport, which can´t be said about many other studs. But kimbo is just one dog, you have everything they have in germany in denmark too, plus dogs like tabo, so if you can´t find a dog in denmark you be hard pressed to find it anywhere else. But of course all dogs used in a given country is not in you are my taste, denmark or holland or everywhere.

I don´t think you should expect a PSD do everything like a sportdog and compare them, slowing down to catch the bad guy is probably more practical than jumping high and long like a flashy sportversion of the couregetest on a plain grassfield. But sportwork and servicework is not the same, dogs that you think are boring could be much better in service than these easy to train highly preydriven malinois and some GSDs.s  I could show you example of that if you like. The older dog seemed to be much slower and "boring" looking than many of todays sportdogs, so was it better in former times despite the less flashy sportdogs, or is it better today;)

Considering nosework and SAR-type of jobs is standard for many PSDs in scandinavia it´s strange if GSDs can´t do this, especially since denmark has almost only GSDs in policework, and they are many GSDs  in finland,sweden, norway too doing tyipe of work. Or are you talking about some elitforce of SAR dogs that should be used in hotter climates?

Good post johan... I highly doubt a criminal is going try and "SAFELY CATCH" a dog. You can't compare a dog trained is psd to a sport trained dog. High prey is great but I want to have the whole package myself. For what its worth myret I thing ring shows a dogs athleticism more than its ability to do real service work. In short. Keep us posted on your puppy as you progress in training. What are your goals for your new puppy? Right now I'm very satisfied with my opal x noeska tiekerhook pup. Very drivey little bitch. No one is gonna win any arguement on here. To each his own. But what you are saying is tha most of the dogs from kennels SALTZTABLICK, MAINEICH, ADELEGG, KETSCHER WALD, MOHNWIESE and many others lack DRIVE & HARDNESS. That is quite a bold statement to make from someone with your vast experience. I'm out and good luck with your pup. Sincerely. Kurt

vomtreuenhaus wrote:
'Alot of what i notice is the AKC show people that dont even health test, or temperament test, or do any kind of sport with their dogs, but breed because it is an AKC Champion, or from such-and so, and its rear touches the ground and has the best gait etc etc, THOSE are the people bashing Schutzhund and many of the other sports. 1. Because their dogs CANT do it, 2. tis cheaper for them to not do it and 3. Theyre too lazy to do it, but will justify breeding their dogs because they are champions etc.
I truly havent seen many of the Sv standard breeders, or Sch people talk badly of it. I HAVE seen some trainers, and alot of club members, etc, speak of how alot of the titles are fake and some judges (more so over seas than here) are paid to sign the books. But have not seen anyone knock the sport itself...other than the changes that have been made.'

Actually, some of the biggest bashers
on this board and others of the sport
of schutzhund are the same ones that
don't work/title their dogs. But, I find it
so humorous that these same 'experts'
will brag about owning a titled dog, or
will carry on about a dog being linebred
on _______________, which incidentally
is also a schutzhund titled dog.

You can spot these 'breeders' and
'experts' easily by their ads for the
puppies they produce. They will focus
on the litter being from 'imported
parents', or 'linebred ______ on
____________' etc.

It is not a perfect sport/system,
but if it is used honestly to evaluate
a dog, it works pretty damn good and
has for many many years.

WorkingDogz,
Good post.

Myret,

I haven't read all of your posts but the 12 mile Bike ride, temperament test and titling is the same for a SchH title and breed survery.  That is really not a big deal, the minimum anyone should do before breeding a dog.  I noticed Johan stated you made reference to Police dogs, Now I will have to go back and read some of your posts. 

Nevermind, too much double talk and double posts, boils down to way too much work.