Teaching 'no' opinions? - Page 1

Howdy all!
Well today my heads been getting a little foggy, mostly because I think I'm bogging myself down with the myriad of training methods and techniques out there and trying to work out the best one for me and my 8 week old puppy. She's a working prospect, hopefully we'll be able to get her started in some IPO work once she's a little older though I am doing some drive/ball work with her now. Were keeping things pretty easy. Socialization and Crate/House training mostly. Throw in a couple of 'show' sessions (so far just teaching her stand). And leash walking were doing hand in hand. She pulls and I stop, she doesnt get anywhere, and now knows that when the leash tightens she should turn around. Well, knows most of the time she is a baby after all.
Where I'm getting foggy is the correction thing and I'd like some opinions on how I do this. Were not doing any hard corrections. Right now the only way we convey displeasure is avoidance, word, wait, reward. For example, she chews pants. When she does this I just tell her no firmly, and stand there and wait for her to stop. The moment she does I give it perhaps a second or two pause, and reward the crap out of her with words and play.  A lot of things I read though say there should be no correction, not even if the puppy 'misbehaves'. Some even say no training til the puppy is 6 months old. Then I read things that say 'thats ridiculous, teach the puppy no.'
Now in order of importance, this is a pet - worker - show dog. If she's not good with IPO she'll be a tracker. So theres 'back up' plans I guess you could say, but I'd like to know what other people say/do in regard to teaching basic manners.

check out Michael Ellis DVD's he seems to have a system that works very well and its easy to understand.

NO, yep   

the very first lesson. LOL 
Ask any mom of a two year old, or dad, LOLOLOLL

"Some even say no training til the puppy is 6 months old."  Ren, do you mean the negative correction as in "no" when training a young pup or is it NO as in zero training?  Further to this, is it the "no" or the "out" command that you may have been confused by here?

BTW, if your puppy bites where he/she is not suppose to, say "no" and re-direct to a tug/ toy rather than wait & reward after saying "no".  JMO.

I never tell my pups "NO,"  I may say "pfooey" and re direct.  I would never tell my pup "NO" and wait then reward.  If I tell my dog "No" the behavior must stop immediately.  Waiting will teach the dog that you are not serious and he can ignore your commands.  What can an 8 week old puppy do that it really needs a correction for or even to be told no for? 

  I agree with slamdunc...NO is not taught to a pup/
No is a command

 NO is to be used when serious meaning is implied.

Nine is used first then no only when danger appears

Phooey is the word we use

No keeps a pup from completeing his routines and when you have told him no at 3, 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 months old and one day you give him a bite or a need to grab a stick , rope or he advances to some routine and he all of a sudden remembers you told him NO many times and it is imbedded with that thing you are expecting him to do now...like jump up and grab it...and you told him no back months in a row for jumping , or biting......guess who will hesitate  or not follow thru with exhuberance....there will be hesitation or nothing at all..

When pups are to be taught right from wrong you use the pups drives to make him/her do what you want..with redirect

The mention from Sitasmom may show you some of these ways ....maybe...

Yr

Isn't phooey, nine, uh-uh the same variations as "No"?

It depends on the tone. "Pfooey" is more along the lines of bad boy, or "shame on you.". More of a gentle admonishment. No or "nine" is reserved for more serious behaviors. No, will be very quickly, if not instantly followed by some sort of corrective action. For me there is not much a puppy can do that is really wrong. I start training right away with a puppy. Tracking, imprinting for OB and teaching the dog to love working. All this is done motivationaly, I ignore the biting and other negative behaviors and focus on the behaviors that I want. It's funny how when you lavish the dog in praise for being correct, teach the dog that correct behaviors get the toy or treats the puppy will repeat those behaviors .

Re the 6 month thing: it wasn't too long ago that EVERONE was told a puppy wasn't capable of being trained before 6 months! No schutzhund, no basic obedience, NOTHING!

I'm currently reading one of Stanley Coren's books, and he was one of the first to go against this long-held belief, and say it was nonsense.

What a long way we have come! Now the Superdogs program starts 'training' puppies at birth by getting them used to handling and stimulation.

I agree Slamdunc, the tone of the voice makes a lot of difference to the seriousness in the correction.  On the contrary, I use pfooey for my "No" and that is more serious than uh-uh / nie / nee.  I guess what ever the word one uses, it is appropriate to the reaction one requires.