CONCERNING PROTECTION TRAINING - Page 1

HI GUYS, I HAVE HEARD THAT YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE YOUR DOG OBEDIENCE TRAINED AT ALL IF YOU ARE GOINT TO HAVE HIM OR HER PROTECTION TRAINED. IF THIS IS TRUE I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THE REASONING BEHIND IT. ANY INFO FROM YOU WILL BE APPRECIATED. THANKS JO ANN

Heavy obedience training prior to training for protection work can cause the dog to be inhibited and effect it's bite work.  It is much harder to start a dog in Protection work that has a lot of heavy handed obedience.  It is a commonly accepted practice to start and develop a good foundation in bite work prior to doing serious OB.  Of course it depends on the dog and the style of training.  It is common for dogs that have a lot of OB to focus to much on the handler and not work independently in the bite work. 

OB and bite work can be done in different sessions, but too much pressure will show up in the bite work.

JMO,

Jim

And there is a difference between obedience and control. 
~Brandi~

no obedience at all sounds a little stupid to me , I prefer a dog to know the basic commands before I start bitework , such as here ,  sit , down , etc.
makes the rest a little easyer

Im training a personal protection dog right now  , and if I say sit , I want him to sit , but not asking for  a in position  schh style sit , that would require much more pressure on the dog , same goes for the other commands 

i agree with slamdunc....old school "yank and crank" on a immature,inexperienced dog can lead to later problems in the protection work later on,for a big majority  of dogs.sure there may be that"favored few" that won't and can't be screwed up,no matter what a handler does by way of heavy handed methods or just bad training(i've seen a couple).a well socialized,imprinted young dog can gain much experience from puppy to young adult with correctly enforced boundaries and motivational training....i've seen a number of young dogs that were subjected to the "yankem/crankum" totally shut down when they hit the end of the lead(or tie-out chain)....what's worse is a egotistical handler/owner that gets really pissed when this happens and gets rid of the dog(one way or another)then they come back with a unruly monster,that's way to much for them to handle(and dangerous) to satisfy their ego trip!

 It,s called balance in training and reading your dog. But yes I,ve always been more focused on the bite work foundation at a young age.

IMHO it,s easier to cap and focus drive then build it. Or i should say i,d rather cap drive then to have to build it.

ostsee , who is doing oldskool yank/crank these days , you can teach them the basics before they even know they have teeth
if a dog cant take a simple obedience lesson before bitework , because he can be mentally  "damaged"by that , I guess he is not personal protection material , but cauchpotatomaterial

Duke, I was thinking the same, but many trainers out there that do PP are still using the "jerk and work" method.

the problem ... most people , not all most .. in plain english , they don't have the foggiest clue as to what they are doing !! period , in a nut shell .. i have had a number of GSDs show/working makes no difference , at 6 months old had all the protection work and BH down pat .. started them off at 8 weeks !! why do i say that ?? they have no understandfing of canines , they have no understanding of how dogs learn , how to teach, develop & nurture  etc etc. .. to them a dog is just a dumb animal that they treat like an automaton !! the stupidity and lack of common sense is beyond me ! ok .. so don't teach a four year old the alphabet , don' t teach him[her] not to color with crayons . they may get ruined if you teach the proper way for them to use their mouths & heavens if you should teach them they rather than writing on the wall but they get better /best results using  coloring paper !.. .. gee .. wait until they are of college age to teach them to read and draw. the fact is that you folks don't know how to teach nor do you understand the word obedience or the criteria resulting / defining  obedience , as it applies to the growth and development of a person or a canine.......  how in the world can you think of being as parent when you can't even rear , raise , teach and develop a dog ??  you knuckleheads .. there is a difference in teaching and conditioning as opposed to asserting your authority . there is a need to develop confidence , self esteem , skill and knowledge in the young as well as thew older. you don't even have to do your so called obedience to ruin a dog .. all you need to do is verbally and physically dominate the dog to repress it and that is completely seperate from even training a dog @!! and oh BTW wait until your son is a teenager before you set the ground rules .. see to what degree you'll keep the reigns on that youngster.. i take great offense when people on this  forum give advice to the world when they don't know apples from grapes.  better not to post and keep quiet than prove your stupitity

lovejags,  if you are going to live with the puppy there are certain things a pup must know for his own safety and to keep your home from being destroyed.  ;)  the others are absolutely right about the old school yank and crank methods and about diminishing drive and dogs shutting down.  however, there is nothing wrong with teaching a pup some basic commands by using treats or food.  keep it fun.  keep it light and keep it short.  the pup will learn what he needs to know and still have a fun time doing it.  whether its a food reward or a tug of war session, pups are eager to please and it doesn't take long for them to associate action with reward.  good luck.
pjp