Those rebellious moments

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by beetree on 08 March 2011 - 13:03

There have been those times when my dog knows a command but for whatever doggy reason, he flat out defies the command. What do you do in this case?

by LadyFrost on 08 March 2011 - 14:03

When i brought Dozer home he was going on 7 months..per his paper work from shelter he was a stray...he had no house manners, no rules, poop eater, digger - therefor new name of "Dozer" as bulldozer, he was a basket case when he was put on a leash....first few weeks were hard... word "come" meant nothing to him, so...i had him leashed to my female Misty 3.5 year old at that time and she was a perfect dog, someone obviously put some money into her training..anyways..I thought he would start associating come with coming to me..well he figured it out when I say come Misty bolts to me and the only way he can resist is to become a dead weight and of course Misty would stop and look at me like..."help"... so the leashing thing had to come off...after that I took a week off because one way or another it was going to me my way....so when i come outside and say "come" he would ignore me...so I would literally had to go to him grab his collar and take him to where i stood when I said word "come" sometimes he would just drop down and be dead weight, I would drag him by his front legs....once he decided to climb under a car..got pulled by hind legs...I made sure when I said "come" i had enough time and patience to go get him....this may have not been the most Orthodox way of doing it but guess what..after 4 days when I say word come he came because he finally got it that one way or the other he was going to be where I want him....
Now days Dozer is my velcro dog...great with animals, people, kids...very protective of the property yet backs off when told to do so, yet remains close by...I would not trade him for the world.

Dozer and Misty

by Changer on 08 March 2011 - 16:03

Look at your reinforcement. Is it worth his while? Are you absolutely sure your dog knows it? Why does he not want to do it? If you verbally correct him, does he then do it? Can he do it, for instance, if you told him to stop chasing the cat and since he obeys you inside, you assume he can obey you outside, but you never really taught it outside?
And last of all, they are animals and they make their own decisions. I don't obey everything my boyfriend tells me either. Not saying that animals are our equals, but they do have their own will. I don't take it personally when my dog doesn't do what I want him to, I take it as information and say, hmmm... guess I didn't train you well enough in that situation.

by LadyFrost on 08 March 2011 - 16:03

Changer...this was just an example.....opinion on a dog as a whole cannot be made based on just this information.... but to clarify if i had a piece of bacon on my hand and showed him that I had it, heck yeah he was next to me...its when i had nothing he would look at me and ignore..he was not conditioned from 8 weeks old to do as he is told, he was on his own, he had no fear of people, he did as he pleased for 7 months of his life...my reinforcement of food worked only when I had it, but i needed a dog that would come to me even when I had no food and it was not working, affection did not work for this dog either....he liked getting it but not enough to stop what he was doing and come running to me...like i said..my way was unorthodox but it worked for me...with him i had to make a few unorthodox changes in my typical dog OB training but it worked...Also, I do not assume anything, such as chasing cats (I got 2 of them) and he does not chase either one....he is perfect inside now because of my hard work and not assumptions (took a while to get him there too) he will stay only where there is no carpet as he was trained to do (kitchen, hallway, laundry room) .... :)

by DebiSue on 08 March 2011 - 18:03

Ladyfrost...LMAO! I can just imagine you doing this. It worked so who am I to knock it. LOL I don't trust my dog to come when I call at all times. I have used your method in the past and it worked for a while. Now, if she is busy checking something out in the back yard I can't just walk up to her and grab her. She figured it out and will dart away. I'm seriously thinking of using an e-collar just to reinforce the fact that I can reach out and touch her from a distance. Right now I can say "inside" and she will beat me to the house but I can forget about her coming to me unless I have food.

beetree, I feel your pain.

Deb

by GSDguy08 on 08 March 2011 - 20:03

I still wander what people would think of how we "train" dogs now. People who had dogs hundreds of years ago, or even thousands, and had them trained for their needs. I doubt they used treat training, or ball on a string, etc etc to train their dogs. Like the Huskies pulling the sleds for the Chukchi tribe three thousand years ago, that does require training, it's not just pulling a sled. Not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with using treats, toys, praise, (I use that kind of stuff at times with my pack as well) etc.....I just wander how they "trained" or what they did compared to today.

by RLHAR on 08 March 2011 - 22:03

Strangely enough I try to figure out what's wrong.

Example, my bitch knows her dumbells over the hurdle. She knows "Hup" and "Bring" and was very well proofed.

One day I was training and I sent her out "Hup" and called "Bring" well she came back over the hurdle without the dumbell. I was dumbfounded! A moment later she started to pace around and began to assume the position to take a shit.

Quickly got her off the training field and to the relief field where she relieved herself. Immediately she came back onto the training field, ran out to the dumbell and retrieved it too me perfectly. Hard to focus when you've GOT TO GO!

Of course, now that she made that mistake we're having to go back and re-proof what "Hup" and "Bring" mean, because at the time I couldn't bring myself to correct her for what was my mistake.

Long story short, I don't entirely believe in "rebellious" moments. They might look like they came out of left field but chances are if you think about it long enough you'll figure out what you as a handler have done wrong to cause the 'rebellion'.

by alboe2009 on 09 March 2011 - 06:03

All good posts, a couple make you really think, if you want to.

GSD guy; my thoughts would be along the lines that the dogs back then were purer and not changed so much by domestication or "pet" attitude. I would think back then they, (dogs), played a vital role in the clans' survival. And realized what a true working dog was. Work or there will be no food! Basic, simplest bonding............ Survival.

My dogs are all taught by praise as their reward. And out of three, the Czech F will at times disobey the command (live on a farm) and chase the rabbits etc. 100 mph into the woods. (e-collar candidate?) We can do so well for a good period of time and then WHAM like a greyhound out of the gate!

by beetree on 09 March 2011 - 15:03

I have enjoyed all the responses, too!

I'll tell you what I see in my dog. I've been having my dog wave to the schoolbus every morning. I use a hand sign and say WAVE. He used to do it with a happy look in his eyes. I never used food to motivate. Praise and petting were the rewards. Then he seemed to get a bit slow... I'd then kind of "help" him along to make him in compliance, (kind of like LF, lol) and so as not to become a babbling fool with a dog who ignors me.

Then one day he just became stone, and serious and only wanted to stare at the schoolbus.

I eventually resorted to the treats, and got him interested in doing what I want... but I get the feeling I missed something important and am bound to repeat this .....!

by beetree on 11 March 2011 - 13:03

Well, I've gone back to no treats, with success! I had hoped someone would want to pick my bungling method apart, I know there are some here that can explain what is going on...

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