Larus Batu Sieger 2005? - Page 2

Brittany has a good point. Larus? why not? Just look who is its breeder. Some times I am afraid that politics is no a factor but "the" factor. Regular breeders that are not inside the close circle of judges that have a grip on power have to dedicate themselves to compite with females. Little chance for the "regular breeder" in the male competitions. In previous periods the power circle led to a lot of Wienerau and Arminius in top placements, today power has shifted to Batu, Agrigento, Arlett, Frankengold, Bad-Boll, etc. Naturally, members of the SV board and others would strongly disagree with my assessment, but then I would suggest to them the following very easy empirical excercise to prove me wrong: make a correlation between the judges that have been involved in the SV board (and their close associates) and the placement of their dogs, (say, since 1960.)

Politics is a fact of life in everything. Who gets promoted, who gets hired (family, friends children, females, minorities, etc.), who wins a Nobel Prize, who gets on an NBA basketball team (token white, hometown boy, even a female once), and yes, even in beauty and talent pageants. That's what a Seiger Show is, beauty and talent. Making a law to not allow Judges to also be breeders is not the way. You would also have to make it illegal for someone they know to enter a show under them. Then what kind of Judge would you have. Someone who is a hermit and never associates with the GSD world. Not a very knowledgeable Judge I would say, if that occured. We just have to do the best we can in picking our Judges. Like picking a CEO or spouse. No guarantees. Life is not fair and never will be. Neither are dog shows. I would submit (even though I disagree with it), that "politic-ing and sucking up to certain people" is part of winning, usually. It's part of the contest. Every once is a while someone or some dog will be just so damn good that politics can be overcome. But it is not the norm. I have never been to a Seiger Show nor have I ever seen a VA dog in person, but I read everything I can about them. I believe that any one of the VA dogs can be Seiger on any given day. It would be hard to dispute a Judges pick on a given day, but it is fun to converse about it. Sort of like other sports, Who is the greatest basketball player of all time, or soccer player, or football player. Everyone has an opinion. P.S. I like Quirin Hochmoor or Larus in the top three. Quirin produces high drive progeny. Ghandi Arlett has a lot of winning progeny but appears to "little" to me. I know what the standard is, but size does matter this decade. Fact of life. Sarko de Casa Mary will be a VA or close to it. Dux di Quatro Flores will move up a lot. There, said my two cents.

Is Heinz scheerer the owner of Orbit as well as his breeder? If so I don't think he can compete. Shame.

Politics may be a factor, BUT Larus Von Batu IS a good dog. I might add, while Erich Orschler is listed as the "breeder" on all the "pink papers", he is a medical products CEO, that does not actually breed German Shepherds. In fact, one of the breeders of "Von Batu" that lives in Bavaria, told me that he is one of 5 or so breeders throughout Germany, that breed under the "Von Batu" name. Erich Orschler owns the kennel name "Von Batu", but that is the extent of his involvment. If Herr Orschler would die tommorrow, Von Batu would cease to exist, and those breeders would be without a kennel name, and could NEVER, EVER produce a "Von Batu" dog. I say all this to put into prospective, Erich Orschler's involvment as a judge. It is my understanding that there is not even a German Shepherd that lives at Herr Orschler's home. Politics are a part of life. Herr Orschler may own the name, "Von Batu", but the emotional involvement to see "his" dogs win is not there. He is far removed from that, and overall is a fair individual. Larus Von Batu was not welped by Erich Orschler, and now being judged by the same. It's not that simple.

SGBH very well said. I would like to remention couple of facts. Larus came in with too much expectations on his shoulder. Even before Orschler was to be judge the whole world was singing praise for Larus as the next best thing to Odin in construction, the quality of his blood was revered and breeders quedup for his stud whilst he was just the Youth Sieger! So where are you people comming from when you say its Politics? As mentioned by me earlier the euphoria for Hill has died show me how many breeders favour to stud their bitches with him anymore? so how is he a better sieger? Larus still has high breed value and has outstanding progeney. Read David Payne's Impression to get the statistics on how many of his sons and daughters were placed in the TOP 50 of every class? Without a doubt Larus is a righteous Sieger, his own Anatomie the quality of his blood and the quality of the family he come from. Orschler's judging well, he awarded Indo only a V1 although he had placed him upfront several VAs including Kevin at many Landesgrupe. The owners of Indo presented him again in 2004 hoping for the elusive VA but was not to be. Iv mentioned Quantum in the context that he was not even thought about in the year he made his first VA. It was Orschler's foresight included this TOP quality producer in the VA.

"vfg" does have facts from his opinion, the shifting of power then and nowadays, and the corelation factor. Quoted from "do right and fear no one" that politic is a fact of life in everything, I suggest we all must be wise to see this in a whole. I mean ignoring completely that there are no politics isn't wise but neither is assuming that all grading of dogs connected with politics. Flow definitely had uttered all the background concerning the crowning of Larus and politely defend the judging result of Erich, we should all respect his opinion. On the other hand, there others of us who see it differently. So, I say that we all enjoy this discussion and let's wait till Siegershow in Ulm. No matter what the result will be, every single of us can still have our own independent evaluation based on our own point of view.

Herr. Orschler may not own the dogs. However there is big money to be made having a sieger. And lots of history will remember the name on the pink slip. I guess that many on this site are american. You should know all about the money part. One thing is certain a new type of dog will be in now. Always happens with a new judge. Politics and money are a part of GSD, either you live with it or start breeding another type of dog. Main drive should be if you LOVE the gsd and think you migt be able to make a tiny improvement.

As far as I know, Heinz Scheerer is not and has not been the owner of "Orbit" for a long time already ;-). I had looked him up several months ago, and tha owner was a different person. Although, this means nothing. But I do prefer Heinz Scheerer as a judge to Erich Orschler. And the breeding of Orschler is/was too much. His litters all over Germany! How many of thos litters came out bad? Look at the letters which with the names begin. Yes sireeeee, there is a goldmine, as far as I can see! I would just like to add, that I personally never liked "Larus" very much and agree, that he should not have been "Sieger" being judged by the owner of his kennel name. Besides, I have heard things like HD and otherd from Germany, but seeing as I cannot prove it, I will not say more about it. But I know people that have bred with "Larus" and have not at all been satisfied. If you think that "Quirin" or others do not produce well, I think one has to take into consideration how many and what kind of females he males have sired¡ No? Most people go to the Sieger, because of commercial reasons, the pups sell better, or don't they? What about "Wallace aus Agrigento"? His owner does not show him at the Siegerschau, being his breeder as well. And he would not even judge him himself. Oh well, I have said many things and know I will receive a lot of answers, but that is correct, everybody is free to give their opinion. So I await yours. Kind regards,

I'm sure that Larus is a good dog, seriously. Im sure that he has the best temperament in the entire world... it isn't fair to have the owner of the kennel to judge him. I dont give a damn if he doesn't own the dogs... He still owns the kennel. Do you think hes going to judge something down that came out of his kennel? Heck no! I have seen better well built conformation dogs that looks hell of a lot better than Larus... but unfortunatly they will never be showed in the german sieger show because they're pure working lines. Question: What makes Larus a great dog? What has he improved in the breed? Somebody explain.

If we discuss individual dogs we will never end. I think the real issue, may be to be discussed under a different heading, should be about conflict of interest and about how to solve those VERY serious conflict of interest.