I Want Beauty He Wants a Beast - Page 4

Keith ! Hello there :) I'm so glad you're happy with your new puppy she's a cutie and I wish you lots of success ! 

As I said, winning the NASS is honestly not something we are aspiring to accomplish here. I only mention it because it gives one a clear example of the type of structure /look we are seeking in a dog. I do not want to sacrifice working ability for a "pretty" face, but I want to have our best chance at both ;) 

thanks for the references ! 

Happy training :) 

 

 

Re Mittelwest dogs: No, Ruger, YOU didn't. That was for Beetree's benefit. It is understandable that you wouldn't want to go that particular route again; even though there is clearly no need to write off the kennel for everybody. I can see that there would be a desire on your part to try elsewhere. And I haven't seen many Sables come out of there, so if you have your heart set on one of that colour ...

 

On the other point, of which of you is going to be most pleased with the choice of dog (lol !), I'm glad there isn't any altercation about it. But can you clarify: is this one dog for you both ? Or will you be going for His & Hers ? The latter may be a better option in some ways - although the bit about your having to spend time with it/them both too still applies.

Would you consider importing from Von Arlett ?

I would make sure to look up how many of the current dogs from the lines and breeders recommended are actually titling and getting V ratings, doesn't matter at what kind of show, but at least getting a V rating in conformation...in the working class (the only class you can get a V in).

Mittlewest is definitely capable of producing and selling you a dog that will work. I've seen them. Do they require a bit more work than your top level working line, absolutely, but they'll work. They also definitely have a higher chance of placing much higher at a national/regional conformation show. I wouldn’t place much weight on the few people that have been extremely successful with showlines. The chances of you having the same success is not great. The people mentioned in this thread (Kevin and Cheryl), are extremely talented trainers and have a ton of experience and knowledge. They’ve actually switched to working lines and are doing very well with their dogs there as well. Competing with the big boys in IPO with your first dog is going to be hard, if not impossible, without the right guidance and the right dog. I wouldn’t imagine you’d find that dog in show lines. You’re unlikely to find that dog as a puppy in working lines as well…I’m not sure if any of the kennels mentioned to you have produced a competitive dog in the last decade.

A lot is going to depend on the training and who you’ll be working with. Not sure about your location, sounds a little like you’re in the Chicago area, so you do have a lot of good options, but if your goal is IPO first…I’d contact those people and make sure your “type of dog” lines up well with their training theory and philosophy. It’s going to be a long road even if you’re working with good people trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

She's near Cleveland.

How many of the top competitors bred or even put most of the training on their own dogs?

Top 5 at AWDF has done a lot of the work on their competition dogs. I'm sure you'll argue about the winner, but I'm pretty certain all 5 dogs went from IPO1-IPO3 with their current handlers (if not BH through IPO3). I know 4/5 dogs that were top 5 at the 2016 AWDF were definitely raised, trained, trialed by their current handlers. The top 5 at the 2016 USCA Nationals were basically fully trained by their current handlers, I'm fairly certain they all went IPO1 to IPO3 with their current handlers. I know that one dog in the top 10 of that event was trained/titled by someone other than their current handler, and there might be one or two more but I'm not positive.

The idea that the top placements at the big events are done by dogs trained by others is an old one...just look at who's at the top. Highest scoring HOT is usually on the podium unlike years ago when it might've gone to a dog in the teens.

A little more research and just knowing dogs/trainers/handlers would allow you to make your own conclusion about what is currently happening in the sport of IPO...listening to others who haven't sniffed a podium complain usually doesn't lead to the correct conclusion.

BW, you're being a brat again.

Your last paragraph directed at Keith reeks of someone who doesn't know who he's talking to. Do you doubt Keith "knows" "dogs/trainers/handlers"? Seriously? Does he not train actively? Credibility is in question when you say something like that to someone who has titled his own dogs and trains every.single.day.

Let's be clear: I never insinuated anything re: Mittelwest kennels. Spare me the incorrect benefits of your categorizations, HM.

Well, I'm glad that we have someone like you around to teach the rest of us.

FYI...I bought a dog from this year's AWDF winner over 30 years ago.  Had you even been born yet?  LMAO!

 

If he knew the trainer dog teams that have been on the podiums recently he wouldn't question "how many of the top competitors put most of the training on their own dogs?"

It's alright though...you've got a natural alliance and reason to defend the guy now. There's no need to discuss this further as I'm sure Dawulf will be jumping in any minute now to defend him and you as well because of the current puppy purchase. It's normal business on forums...such and such person has a dog from me, or a dog related to mine? I MUST DEFEND THEM TO THE DEATH EVEN WHEN THE INFORMATION THEY'RE SPEWING IS INCORRECT!

Go through the top 5, or even top 10 at the national events in recent years and let me know which handler/team didn't do "most of the training on their own dogs." Let's do that before we start questioning credibility.

Oh and now we deflect and call into question age or something instead of answering a simple question. Name the teams that weren't "mostly trained by their current handler."

BW what in the living hell are you talking about?! Defend WHAT guy? Who is this "HIM" you keep referring to? You're losing your marbles, I'm afraid. *I* am the breeder of Keith's puppy and Dawulf's puppy. *I* bred their dam, as well. *I* own their sire, and *I* own their grand dam, too, and no one I'm aware of in the local vicinity has anything even close, so maybe you should fact-check prior to playing angry anonymous dude on the forum again! Sheesh.